Heat Treating, general discussion

This 2nd tool I have made in my new hobby and was wondering about the temper after the heat treat? I heated to a dull orange and quenched in preheated used motor but only up to the start of the taper. I heated the whole tool up and then let the radiant heat soak it's way up to the top.leaving the octagon section to just air cool to stay soft for the hammer blows Probably a 5 minute process to let the tip turn to an almost dark brown/ purple color. My theory is it's going to be abused shockooaded/side loaded and would rather a softer rather than hard and have the chance of shearing. The parent spring is a 7/8 thick coil spring off an industrial vibratory shaker. …

I have been anvil hunting with little luck, so I decided to stop by my local scrapyard today. I came home with a couple chunks of 4140 that are 3"x2.5"x10". I would like to harden one's face and sink it in some concrete for a post anvil. Any suggestions on trying to harden it? I don't know how much I should try to harden, like just a few inches, or what? I have a small forge I can heat it in, or I could use my HF weedburner and give that a shot. I don't have anything but old motor oil on hand to quench with at the moment, but I could get some better oil if need be. I was thinking about a 400° temper after hardening. Any thoughts or wisdom to share? I could bang on i…

I forged a knackered old hammer head down into a little kindling splitter/axe/chopper thingy yesterday. I have not yet got a tub of oil - so remembering Frosty's reworked hammer thread, I brought a cauldron of water up to a rolling boil, and did the quench in that. Tempered to purple and all seems well and good. I was just wondering how does boiling water compare to oils on the quenchant scale? Does it make the water a significantly more 'gentle' quenchant - anywhere near oil or still a world apart? Im wondering whether I was just lucky with the steel, as the advice in all the other thread seems to be try oild first and water if necessary. I dont think this has…

Hi all, I'm planning on using some S7 soon to make some awls for leather working. The steel will be 0.500 in at the widest point, my understanding with this thickness of S7 it needs to be air quenched. I've worked with A2 and A6 using a fan to "force" room air into a stainless steel box for quenching with good results. My questions are; Has anyone used this alloy before? If so anything I should expect? And would my setup for air quenching work with S7? I've searched the forum and go no results. Thanks in advance!

I'd like to use a 16 gallon Texaco oil barrel I picked on Craig's List as an oil quench tank. I plan on using canola oil at first because most of the blades I'll be making will be 5160. I plan on making a lid for it in case of any flash issues and to keep it clean of all the things in my shop that might want to crawl into it. I plan on filling it up with 12 or 13 gallons of oil so it's not easily sloshed out and also plan on putting it on a mobile stand so it can be wheeled outside for quenching. I'll preheat the oil by hanging a heated railroad spike in the barrel. I see a lot of guys quenching in metal tubes that seem like too little oil and too big of a chan…

I have obtained a piece of 12"x6"x3/4" thick 4140 plate that I plan on mounting to an I beam to create a homemade anvil. I would love to get the piece to a RC in the mid 50's to 60. What is the best way to get er done?

I'm wondering how the temperature of the oven relates to the material temperature and if they are always the same once the right amount of time has past. So for instance, if you need to heat treat steel at 500 degrees for 8 hours, you set your oven to 500 degrees - 1. Is there a rule of thumb of how long it will take the steel to come to 500 degrees? 2. If the steel was in the oven when you started the oven to rise to 500 degrees, when the oven hits 500 degrees, does that mean for relative certainty that the steel is also at 500 degrees? Or by scientific principles, will the oven not hit 500 degrees until the steel hits 500 degrees as it's effectivel…

I need to make a metal cutting tool (a reamer). So it needs to be as hard as it can be. The question is: should I temper it after quenching? The steels I have for the reamer are O1 and 5160. It's for a one time job, and needs to cut annealed steel. Thanks,

Hi all, hoping for a bit of help. I've been trying to anneal a piece of drill rod, already cut and flattened, so it had been heated once already by me, I then heated it to critical, and let it sit in the forge , closed up to cool. After this it was still quite hard to file etc, so after reading Steve Sells article on the subject, I reheated it to critical, let it air cool, then reheated it to sub critical and let it cool in vermiculite. After this, a file just skated across, as if fully hardened, any advice would be appreciated. Note: temperatures were not precise, I just used magnetic/ non magnetic to achieve critical, and sub critical was an estimate based on colour, bu…

Does anybody have an idea about the heat treatment cycle of H13? I need to know; 1- Optimal cooling rate for the Die with dimensions of 400*400*400 mm 2- Exact annealing and tempering times and temperatures Thanks

So I've seen some old posts about quench oil but I was wondering if anyone knows if and what kind of places might sell 22 gallon or 55 gallon drums. I saw a 55 gallon drum of gulf super quench on Google for $520. I'm more than likely not gonna try and get anything that big soon unless it's convenient and I have the extra money at the time. Just one of those things I want to know how to acquire when it's needed. I read somewhere on here talking about being able to get drums of chevron quench oil "back in the day" so I'm not sure how long ago. I can't seem to find any oil suppliers via google, maybe I'm not using the right key words. All in all it would ju…

My teacher has always told me to slowly heat hi carbon steels by resting steel near heat to a black height with slight red glow before putting steel withing heat source, for coke forges. Alternatively, you can put steel within the gas forge while starting the gas forge. My question is with regards to gas forges, is there risk of micro fractures if inserting the hi carbon steel immeaditly within the forge that is already at desired temp?

Hey Forum, I think I forged about 12-15 hammers from 1045 yet and in the last months I have massive problems with them cracking during the quench. Picture 1-3 is the first hammer that cracked during the quench. I heard 3 times the horrific "ping" sound and here you go with a big crack right through the eye. Picture 4-5 is a rounding hammer that showed the same kind of crack as the first hammer. I heared no sound of cracking. I cracked it completely open to examine the grain and the crack itself. After this hammer cracked I assumed that I forged the steel too cold when drifting the eye. So I forged the next little 0.9 kg hammer a lot hotter. I will heat …

Hi to all the blacksmiths out there, got one or two little questions about case hardening and I hope someone can give me some enlightenment I´ve heard that there should be a loud cracking sound if you make the final cooling in water. Ok, sometimes I got it, sometimes not. From what does this cracking sound depend on? And is it important for getting good results? Usual heattreatment needs different tempering, depending on what is the final use of the work. If it comes to case hardening is tempering necessary too, in that case(pardon the pun)? And finaly: what is the right way for case hardening? Polishing the piece/ red heating /applying the …

So one of my buddies told me about how he used this compressed nitrogen air can to thermo-cycle 5160. And he got really great grain structure. Was wondering if anyone else has tried this and how well it might work.

A while ago i got a reply to a post on youtube regarding use of various steel types for making hot working tools vs use of hot working steels. As far as i knowsteels lile H13 need a HT procedure which is not as simple as those needed in case of spring steels for instance. 5160 is a very decent blacksmith tools steel, punches and stuff like that are very usable with minimum maintainance when used properly (not overheat them too much, decent need for dressing from time to time, etc.) Making a tool in few minutes, heat treating in the forge using minimum required tools (HT ovens and stuff) represent huge advantages imho. So, the fellow blacksmith said…

I made this little top fuller, and it cracked on quench. Oil quench, pre-heated oil. Grumpy. Given the the crack runs in front and behind the eye, I'm thinking I probably drifted it too cold. Any competing opinions? Paul

afternoon all, I've started making fire strikers, for my wife's scout troop, using coil spring. However, i'm having trouble getting them hard enough to produce sparks using flint. I heated them to the point of non-magnetic then oil quenched but got very few sparks. should i water quench instead or can anyone offer some other advice? all comments welcome cheers Nobby

In a discussion elsewhere, a fellow in Ireland was talking a big game about quenching in what he called "lark", which by his description was a mixture of water and mud. According to him, this gives a very slow quench that bakes the clay around the blade, which then "cooks in the clay" and does not need additional tempering. This strikes me as arrant nonsense*, but it did get me wondering if anyone here has personal experience or knows of anyone attempting anything similar? *An impression not improved by his insistence that 5160 needs to be folded and welded to itself multiple times to knit together the molecules and equalize the stresses caused by modern…

Hey everyone, I've searched the heat treating thread for about 20 mins now and i'm having a hard time finding info on the proper heat treat for s7 hot punches. I made a slitting chisel a few weeks back out of 3/4 s7 round stock. I like the look of the curved working end, so that's how i forged it. I normalized it twice and heated the steel to a brightish orange and let it air cool. Drew a dark straw temper for the working end. It worked great for a few minutes then snap, the chisel broke right in the center. (it was about 6 inches long). Any tips for the heat treatment of s7 would be much appreciated.

Hello all, I have been looking for some inexpensive methods to make some tools and I ran across this video on the youtube: It seems feasible by what this guy does that this could work, but there are a lot of variables I'm sure he did not put in there. So I have a few questions I'm sure you all can answer... 1. He says in the video that wrapping the thing in clay is not necessary, but what kind of clay should be used? ---What exactly IS "fireclay" and where does a guy find it? 2. Should the clay be allowed to dry before firing? 3. Is case hardening really a viable option? I'll warn you in advance:…

Do different steel types show the same colors when tempered at the same temprature? I ask because my first (bed frame) and second (coil spring) knife shaped objects came out dark straw and the third (leaf spring) came out pea cocky purple. All were quenched in oil and tempered at 425 for two hours in my toaster oven. Disclaimer. I know next to nothing and my methods are sketchy. Just curious. Thanks

Hi. I have a blade that I did normalization cycles on while heating up a forge to do a heat treat on another blade. It happened maybe a month ago and it's been sitting on my desk since then waiting its turn. My question is - does the steel structure achieved during these cycles remain the same over time or do I need to redo the normalization before HT? My hunch is that it will remain the same, but I just want to confirm. Thank you!

Looking for some advice. What is the best way to reduce distortion with 420 material? Running parts hanging vertically from a fixture at 1950 with a 2bar quench 50% fan speed. I have the ability to hang the parts horizontally. Will this help with any distortion since the weight will be dispersed over a larger surface VS all the weight on a vertical end it is hanged from? thank you

What's the minimum amount of quench oil for a two pound hammer head ? a three pound hammer head? a four pound hammer head? Is there a ratio of pounds (or quarts) of oil per pound of work ? Again assuming the work is a hammer head.