I'm trying to say that.. While certification sets a minimum standard it should only be a stepping stone to further understanding. And with the same problems going on or taking place as long as there has been published Data.. Don't you think it's time that these issues are fixed instead of dealing with the problems once they exist and it's to late..
I wish that were the case.. That it was only owner error that is.. I've gotten 13 new customers since the 1st of the year with lame horses all in shoes.. I've gotten 30 new customers in the last 10 years all from bad shoe jobs..
it's only trashing someone if you mention their name.. Some people do good work.. Some people don't.. It's a matter of fact no matter what job you are in (some people are workers, some are system players and do the least they can do).. Good mechanics, bad mechanics, Good plumbers, bad blumbers.. Good blacksmiths, bad blacksmiths, etc, etc..
If you show a hoof to 15 different farriers and ask them to trim it.. You will get 15 different results.. If a foot is perfectly trimmed (what's a perfect trim?) there will still be someone wanting to trim it differently..
The positive nature of Mapping is you will get more consistent results.. And while you may not agree.. It levels those differences between a great number of people.. It also allows for groups to compare results as the process unfolds.. Better than, Your going to trim the sole till you get sole pressure, (IE pair away the sole until all the dead stuff is gone) then form a shelf, place nippers in shelf with about 1/8" above sole.. Now smooth and make level with rasp..
Navicular is best prevented by getting the hoof balanced and getting the weight bearing where it needs to be from the day the horse is born. Not once there is a problem.. . Not all Navicular is gene pool related though certain breeds are more prone to it than others..
No they are not.. Laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae. Both acute and chronic. Founder is when the tissues start to fail/shear/stretch and P3 rotates or Founders just like when a boat founders and was coined from that very thing.. While laminitus has many onsets, Short term high dose exposure to sugars is a main culprit.. Obese horses when put into work can have a glucose reaction/release and get laminitus from such releases as the body can't process the sugars fast enough..
A horse (general term) can have laminitus and not be foundered.. But it can not be foundered and not have laminitus..
Long term exposures to Sugars is what leads to changes in the Pituitary gland. Young horse can get Cushings . This is what cushings is all about.. Again sugar related.. from overly sugared feeds, or excessive grassy turn out.
Never said.. Laminitus was caused by shoeing nor cushings.. I stated these were mainly "Man made diseases".. And a lack of proper care..
Age combined with long term exposure to sugars.. Cushings was relatively rare 20 years ago in my area.. As was laminitus unless the horses or ponies were exposed to sugar rich feeds or busted into the feed bin or on grass..
YUP.. Your right it is a direct reflection upon people.. It's exactly what I said..
Oh, lets see.. in the last 6 months I have been called for 5 horses that the owners claimed were bad and kickers.. 2 stallion minis.. 1 Appaloosa, 1 QH. 1 Fjord..
One of the mini stallion in fact when the owner walked in the stall it was on it's hind legs trying to punch the guy in the face.. This went on for 5 minutes..
The guy eventually got the halter on with a lead.. The guy walked the mini out.. I said I'll take it from here.. I then told the guy to go stand over by the wall about 10ft away..
I then dropped the lead on the ground and trimmed all 4 feet with no incident.. took oh 10minutes I think.. I then brought both feet forwards 1 at a time and rounded them up.. I looked over to the guy and his jaw was just about on the ground.. He walked over and asked me if I drugged the horse when he wasn't looking.... He was astonished with how well the little fella stood.... They were all perfect.. He then told me the last 3 farriers had to fight with 2 of the minis.. I looked an asked why? They are perfectly behaved.. I've been back 4 times.. This last time.. I walked into the paddock and one of the minis came over and I put the lead on.. Dropped it on the ground and did all 4 feet.. again perfect.. I had the mini Done before the guy even got to the barn from the house.
The guy then thanked me and said" Ever since you have been coming the horses have just been more friendly and I don't need to fight with them anymore to get he halters on.. "
Any new customers horses I do all behave the bascially the same way.. If you get poked in the eye everytime you see someone.. Guess what.. You won't want to see them anymore.. This type of bad behavior is gone within a few visits and not once do I yell at or correct the horse in any way.. It's amazing.. Really 100% of them..
I've only worked on 3 real bad horses in 20+ years.. These 3 had a short circuit in the head.. All 3 of them ended up being put down.. 2 of them hurt people pretty badly..
All of the supposed bad horses have given me no problems from day 1.. They all stand perfect with no issues.. Never had to yell at 1 of them. And I don't believe on beating a horse.. Never have.. Back before I knew better I did reprimand a horse that had kicked 3 people just the day before I got there.. Was a 6month old filly.. I gave it a few yells and shuck the lead.. Problem solved..
Mapping While it's great for a beginner in certain environments it has to be adjusted and I found this in the wetter New England terrain and softer wetter footing..
I also moved away from shoeing all together back in 2004 i think. I'd have to check records.. Or I should say for the most part.. There is so much more to a healthy horse than just feed it, water it and keep shoes on it..
Same with barefoot.. It's a process or a different way of keeping a horse.. It's not just a matter of going barefoot..
That is scary if you meant it.. I think it might have been a typo..
Turns out I am still listed.. When I do shoe horses I no longer use the EDSS mapping system and when I started with Gene's system mapping was just starting to be main stream.. ... I stopped using it years ago so no longer claim to be an EDSS trimmer or shoer.. I do refer people to the site when they ask me what I do with the note. That the website will explain better what it is I am doing but it's not the same..
Your response to these posts just confirms more of what I see everyday.. You can read all about it in any of the journals on horse shoeing from back in the day. Wheelright and Blacksmith series or really any of them.. To still be having the same problems over and over and for hundreds of years.. It tells me something is wrong with what is being taught.. I don't want to be part of the problem.. I'm always in search for the cure or at least a more holistic way of treating the horses..
No, they are still going very strong as are most alternatives to traditional farrier schools.. and the reason why I posted the links.. Nothing has imploded..
Despite all the traditional farriers balking at a change, there leaves a lot to be desired in traditional methods..
As to the book.. I'm glad you liked it..
If you like that book (which I have not read nor will I be buying a copy). Try Equine Podiatry.. If you like that kind of Lab text or case study then its right up your alley.. So is the stuff by Rick Redden..
I have seen the same thing with Farriers and Veterinarians dismissing the difference between traditional trimming/shoeing techniques and a proper barefoot trim..
Really What i do is Observational trimming.. Yup.. I coined it myself.. I observe what is there and then remove what would naturally be worn, or broken off in ideal conditions.. While the shape of a naturally made hoof in nature is the best in the North east there are to many variables to getting the same results with defined sole callus.. Much more in line with what would happen in Nature but again I can't do a natural trim as again.. I am the one doing it.. Human intervention isn't really natural..
Also I don't correct anything.. The foot as it heals does it's Own Correction and healing as the tissues get healthier and stronger.. The complexities of the horses hoof is amazingly simple.. But very dynamic..
Not sure you have noticed.. But "Natural Barefoot trim's" are really a play on words.. The only "Natural trim" is one done in nature under ideal conditions on wild roaming horses..
There are wild heard's that don't have great feet.. They are land locked with human intervention or I should say interference..
The argument for vs against and I can vouch it's just like myth busters.. LOL.. There is a big difference with someone who is a skilled practitioner vs someone who just does it to prove it doesn't work.. If someone tries to apply principals without understanding it's a moot point. While the results can be better than the alternative. As an example on Myth busters they were going to use Mizogumo to walk across water.. Any real practitioner worth a salt can tell you they are not used to walk across water.. They are used to walk across swamps.. Big difference..
I've looked at all the various information on more than just barefoot.. Equine podiatry, and others.. While each one propagates it's own thesis after reading all the titles I have, I still came back to the same conclusion.. Which is proper support of the hoof wall, with proper support of the sole, and frog will offer the largest and most positive change to the hoof capsule.. This is what I am saying.. It's that simple and all I am saying..
Traditional farrier work is like Western medicine.. Fix it after the fact.. Barefoot trimming when applied properly is the simplest way to get to a healthier foot.. More like eastern medicine of not letting the problem happen to begin with..
I also think you misunderstood the reason why I posted those links.. It's to further ones education..
I would be happy to change what I do if something came along which I found was better..
So far the result I get far exceed anything I have done previously and after 28 years the results are pretty impressive.. Thicker soles, thicker hoof walls (even on TB's) more hoof mass for a smaller hoof size.. Straighter hoof walls with very little flairing if any.. Heel mass is increased all on it's own while the tissues get fuller/healthier internally.. Nearly no toe distortion and well .. Just plain old Happier horses..
I'm glad you are happy with the Farrier work you do.. For me.. I had way to many questions when I finished my apprenticeship and after doing years and years of research and testing and having excellent customers in my early days that would let me experiment on their horses only to find the results paid off..
Anyhow, I think we all are where we are supposed to be.. I personally will give up shoeing if I thought for a minute I was hurting a horse just for the sake of putting a shoe on.. Don't take that the wrong way.. Some horses need shoes.. Some horses feet are so bad that without shoes they are gonners.. ( was it the shoes or the horse, Egg/chicken)
Horses can and do amazing work while barefoot and with the proper conditions can develop amazingly robust feet..
I can't speak as to any of the other people and the debunking you refer to.. Don't really care.. I can say each person who is looking for alternatives to problems that have been going on for centuries is all right in my book and finding answers to the problems mentioned it would be a far better world for them critters which give us pleasure, work for us making work easier.
People working together always find more answers..
By the way.. I shared links that offer information.. Had nothing to do with debunking traditional farrier work.. Post up some links to farrier sites that you like and can help with more information in line with what you like. I'm always open to learn more..