jlpservicesinc

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About jlpservicesinc

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    Rutland, MA
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    anvil making, utilitarian tools, hardware, tooling, knife and sword making. Martial arts tools especially Ninjutsu.. Industrial forged items..

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  1. I'm trying to say that.. While certification sets a minimum standard it should only be a stepping stone to further understanding. And with the same problems going on or taking place as long as there has been published Data.. Don't you think it's time that these issues are fixed instead of dealing with the problems once they exist and it's to late.. I wish that were the case.. That it was only owner error that is.. I've gotten 13 new customers since the 1st of the year with lame horses all in shoes.. I've gotten 30 new customers in the last 10 years all from bad shoe jobs.. it's only trashing someone if you mention their name.. Some people do good work.. Some people don't.. It's a matter of fact no matter what job you are in (some people are workers, some are system players and do the least they can do).. Good mechanics, bad mechanics, Good plumbers, bad blumbers.. Good blacksmiths, bad blacksmiths, etc, etc.. If you show a hoof to 15 different farriers and ask them to trim it.. You will get 15 different results.. If a foot is perfectly trimmed (what's a perfect trim?) there will still be someone wanting to trim it differently.. The positive nature of Mapping is you will get more consistent results.. And while you may not agree.. It levels those differences between a great number of people.. It also allows for groups to compare results as the process unfolds.. Better than, Your going to trim the sole till you get sole pressure, (IE pair away the sole until all the dead stuff is gone) then form a shelf, place nippers in shelf with about 1/8" above sole.. Now smooth and make level with rasp.. Navicular is best prevented by getting the hoof balanced and getting the weight bearing where it needs to be from the day the horse is born. Not once there is a problem.. . Not all Navicular is gene pool related though certain breeds are more prone to it than others.. No they are not.. Laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae. Both acute and chronic. Founder is when the tissues start to fail/shear/stretch and P3 rotates or Founders just like when a boat founders and was coined from that very thing.. While laminitus has many onsets, Short term high dose exposure to sugars is a main culprit.. Obese horses when put into work can have a glucose reaction/release and get laminitus from such releases as the body can't process the sugars fast enough.. A horse (general term) can have laminitus and not be foundered.. But it can not be foundered and not have laminitus.. Long term exposures to Sugars is what leads to changes in the Pituitary gland. Young horse can get Cushings . This is what cushings is all about.. Again sugar related.. from overly sugared feeds, or excessive grassy turn out. www.Safergrass.org.. Never said.. Laminitus was caused by shoeing nor cushings.. I stated these were mainly "Man made diseases".. And a lack of proper care.. Age combined with long term exposure to sugars.. Cushings was relatively rare 20 years ago in my area.. As was laminitus unless the horses or ponies were exposed to sugar rich feeds or busted into the feed bin or on grass.. YUP.. Your right it is a direct reflection upon people.. It's exactly what I said.. Oh, lets see.. in the last 6 months I have been called for 5 horses that the owners claimed were bad and kickers.. 2 stallion minis.. 1 Appaloosa, 1 QH. 1 Fjord.. One of the mini stallion in fact when the owner walked in the stall it was on it's hind legs trying to punch the guy in the face.. This went on for 5 minutes.. The guy eventually got the halter on with a lead.. The guy walked the mini out.. I said I'll take it from here.. I then told the guy to go stand over by the wall about 10ft away.. I then dropped the lead on the ground and trimmed all 4 feet with no incident.. took oh 10minutes I think.. I then brought both feet forwards 1 at a time and rounded them up.. I looked over to the guy and his jaw was just about on the ground.. He walked over and asked me if I drugged the horse when he wasn't looking.... He was astonished with how well the little fella stood.... They were all perfect.. He then told me the last 3 farriers had to fight with 2 of the minis.. I looked an asked why? They are perfectly behaved.. I've been back 4 times.. This last time.. I walked into the paddock and one of the minis came over and I put the lead on.. Dropped it on the ground and did all 4 feet.. again perfect.. I had the mini Done before the guy even got to the barn from the house. The guy then thanked me and said" Ever since you have been coming the horses have just been more friendly and I don't need to fight with them anymore to get he halters on.. " Any new customers horses I do all behave the bascially the same way.. If you get poked in the eye everytime you see someone.. Guess what.. You won't want to see them anymore.. This type of bad behavior is gone within a few visits and not once do I yell at or correct the horse in any way.. It's amazing.. Really 100% of them.. I've only worked on 3 real bad horses in 20+ years.. These 3 had a short circuit in the head.. All 3 of them ended up being put down.. 2 of them hurt people pretty badly.. All of the supposed bad horses have given me no problems from day 1.. They all stand perfect with no issues.. Never had to yell at 1 of them. And I don't believe on beating a horse.. Never have.. Back before I knew better I did reprimand a horse that had kicked 3 people just the day before I got there.. Was a 6month old filly.. I gave it a few yells and shuck the lead.. Problem solved.. Mapping While it's great for a beginner in certain environments it has to be adjusted and I found this in the wetter New England terrain and softer wetter footing.. I also moved away from shoeing all together back in 2004 i think. I'd have to check records.. Or I should say for the most part.. There is so much more to a healthy horse than just feed it, water it and keep shoes on it.. Same with barefoot.. It's a process or a different way of keeping a horse.. It's not just a matter of going barefoot.. That is scary if you meant it.. I think it might have been a typo.. Turns out I am still listed.. When I do shoe horses I no longer use the EDSS mapping system and when I started with Gene's system mapping was just starting to be main stream.. ... I stopped using it years ago so no longer claim to be an EDSS trimmer or shoer.. I do refer people to the site when they ask me what I do with the note. That the website will explain better what it is I am doing but it's not the same.. Your response to these posts just confirms more of what I see everyday.. You can read all about it in any of the journals on horse shoeing from back in the day. Wheelright and Blacksmith series or really any of them.. To still be having the same problems over and over and for hundreds of years.. It tells me something is wrong with what is being taught.. I don't want to be part of the problem.. I'm always in search for the cure or at least a more holistic way of treating the horses.. No, they are still going very strong as are most alternatives to traditional farrier schools.. and the reason why I posted the links.. Nothing has imploded.. Despite all the traditional farriers balking at a change, there leaves a lot to be desired in traditional methods.. As to the book.. I'm glad you liked it.. If you like that book (which I have not read nor will I be buying a copy). Try Equine Podiatry.. If you like that kind of Lab text or case study then its right up your alley.. So is the stuff by Rick Redden.. I have seen the same thing with Farriers and Veterinarians dismissing the difference between traditional trimming/shoeing techniques and a proper barefoot trim.. Really What i do is Observational trimming.. Yup.. I coined it myself.. I observe what is there and then remove what would naturally be worn, or broken off in ideal conditions.. While the shape of a naturally made hoof in nature is the best in the North east there are to many variables to getting the same results with defined sole callus.. Much more in line with what would happen in Nature but again I can't do a natural trim as again.. I am the one doing it.. Human intervention isn't really natural.. Also I don't correct anything.. The foot as it heals does it's Own Correction and healing as the tissues get healthier and stronger.. The complexities of the horses hoof is amazingly simple.. But very dynamic.. Not sure you have noticed.. But "Natural Barefoot trim's" are really a play on words.. The only "Natural trim" is one done in nature under ideal conditions on wild roaming horses.. There are wild heard's that don't have great feet.. They are land locked with human intervention or I should say interference.. The argument for vs against and I can vouch it's just like myth busters.. LOL.. There is a big difference with someone who is a skilled practitioner vs someone who just does it to prove it doesn't work.. If someone tries to apply principals without understanding it's a moot point. While the results can be better than the alternative. As an example on Myth busters they were going to use Mizogumo to walk across water.. Any real practitioner worth a salt can tell you they are not used to walk across water.. They are used to walk across swamps.. Big difference.. I've looked at all the various information on more than just barefoot.. Equine podiatry, and others.. While each one propagates it's own thesis after reading all the titles I have, I still came back to the same conclusion.. Which is proper support of the hoof wall, with proper support of the sole, and frog will offer the largest and most positive change to the hoof capsule.. This is what I am saying.. It's that simple and all I am saying.. Traditional farrier work is like Western medicine.. Fix it after the fact.. Barefoot trimming when applied properly is the simplest way to get to a healthier foot.. More like eastern medicine of not letting the problem happen to begin with.. I also think you misunderstood the reason why I posted those links.. It's to further ones education.. I would be happy to change what I do if something came along which I found was better.. So far the result I get far exceed anything I have done previously and after 28 years the results are pretty impressive.. Thicker soles, thicker hoof walls (even on TB's) more hoof mass for a smaller hoof size.. Straighter hoof walls with very little flairing if any.. Heel mass is increased all on it's own while the tissues get fuller/healthier internally.. Nearly no toe distortion and well .. Just plain old Happier horses.. I'm glad you are happy with the Farrier work you do.. For me.. I had way to many questions when I finished my apprenticeship and after doing years and years of research and testing and having excellent customers in my early days that would let me experiment on their horses only to find the results paid off.. Anyhow, I think we all are where we are supposed to be.. I personally will give up shoeing if I thought for a minute I was hurting a horse just for the sake of putting a shoe on.. Don't take that the wrong way.. Some horses need shoes.. Some horses feet are so bad that without shoes they are gonners.. ( was it the shoes or the horse, Egg/chicken) Horses can and do amazing work while barefoot and with the proper conditions can develop amazingly robust feet.. I can't speak as to any of the other people and the debunking you refer to.. Don't really care.. I can say each person who is looking for alternatives to problems that have been going on for centuries is all right in my book and finding answers to the problems mentioned it would be a far better world for them critters which give us pleasure, work for us making work easier. People working together always find more answers.. By the way.. I shared links that offer information.. Had nothing to do with debunking traditional farrier work.. Post up some links to farrier sites that you like and can help with more information in line with what you like. I'm always open to learn more..
  2. Thats funny.. I find the old stuff fun to read but they still talk about the same problems they have been having for 100's of years.. Doug Butlers book was good.. So were the old Calvary books.. But they are great from vintage stand point.. they address or talk about problems that exist because of how the horses are shod.. Heel corns, hoof ravel. navicular, flairs.. Sesamoid bone fractures, Ring bone, side bone.. The insanity of it all.. these ( partially or lesser degree Sesamoid bone fractures, bad breeding and early stabling) are culprits of imbalance.. Or a lack of proper hoof balance and support.. Understanding what each tissue in the foot does and how or what it is responding to is far more important and is addressed in much more recent papers, articles, and places Like EDSS.com and the like.. http://www.abchoofcare.com/ https://www.aanhcp.net/ https://www.edsshoofcare.com/ Every horse for any given terrain will have different needs.. Hoof function becomes the key to soundness.. Supporting the tissues that need it, leads to a horses longevity.. In Europe for many disciplines, they consider a horse of 20 to be of prime... In the USA a 20 year old horse is just about considered over the hill..
  3. if you do run the extra bar from top to bottom just add in some stabilizer plates from the bar to the tube..
  4. I am 5'11" myself.. I always envied the little farriers.. funny thing is most the ones I know are pretty tall.. Tall and lanky.. More gristle than brawn.. God bless on the draft thing.. I went last week and trimmed a draft the owner had been doing for a few years. foot must have been 12" across. They drug him to be done as he is a delusional stallion and only gets along with people he knows.. The vet came while I was working and requested I step out of the stall while giving the shots.. Turns out he is a people stomper..
  5. Yes.. They can be cold worked to adjust spring arc or sag.. It is done completely cold.. Even eye forming is done cold.. I've been to the spring shop and have watched them do both trailer and truck springs this way.. Basically when they roll the eye it is now cold work hardened and will not open back up.. They then put in the bushing on a press. This was done on brand new springs and not used material.. I don't know what the base material alloy was I didn't ask.. I assumed it was 5160 but again I never asked.. and I don't know if the beginning material was annealed or not.. I have seen so many leaf spring failures and cracks, you wouldn't catch me hammering on a used one in the cold condition worried it would snap off and hit me in the head..
  6. If you weld you can also hardface them to get longer life out of them.. Stoddy makes a gas rod if you do that kind of thing instead.. Frosty hit it square on the head.. The stuff is hard to work with and even in the annealed state drills hate it.. they do make fancy friction drills which work pretty well but you need like a 5hp drill press running at 3000 rpm to be used for anything larger than about 3/8".. I use them for drilling though files and rasps and fully hardened knife tangs..
  7. Thanks for the reply, but hows about a little insight.. What was holding you up? What was good or bad? Was there something about the foot or shoes that was messing with you? I could fit shoe to the toe just fine.. chuckle, chuckle. Came around to the heel and finding that just right bump once the heels were fitted.. That is/was a totally different story.. What kind of horses? I should have titled this threads the trials and tribulation of the first solo experience.. Must be some really good horses. Personally owned I bet.. They can be very kind..
  8. Since being on another thread about starting out with Farrier work.. It dawned on me about what it is like shoeing Solo for your first time.. I remember it like it was yesterday though it happened over 25years ago.. Wow, LOL.. I remember my legs were shaking and my bosses voice just kept running through my head.. Get under that horse *&&^*().. Bend them legs.. Get in there.. and he'd push my back down and stuff me under the horse.. for 3 months he took my hoof stand away and told me " this will learn ya.." It did.. Anyhow, It had been 3 years of 12-20 horses a day of pulling shoes, trimming feet, making shoes and putting them back on, Strip, nail, clinch.. Rinse and repeat.. But when I did my first maybe 5 horses solo I quickly learned I was doing it wrong and up to that point i thought I had it going on.. What a fool.. I was sweating, my heart was racing, practically ready to pass out.. the horse started to miss behave because of how long I was taking.. 1.5hrs for 4 shoes.. LOL.. What a difference there was between setting shoes and sharing the work load and then doing it all myself.. I remember at 1 point thinking what did I get myself into.. Phew..
  9. PLus 1.. Thumbs up.
  10. A lot of the time.. You might not realize it but you are " Being interviewed". Someone calls me up and says they want to apprentice. First thing I ask is "What is your experience? .. Next question is "Why"? I really don't care about the first question.. I care about the second one.. I tell the person to come watch me work.. If they are willing to take the time out of their day to come watch and they start asking good questions.. It makes a world of difference.. It tells me they have done some research and are really interested in the farrier science.. Not farrier money.. To me the health of the horse is the primary Concern all else means snot.. I want a person who takes the health of the horse, and the feet above all else and is looking for the knowledge to gain both..
  11. It's steady work and with having the same customers every month or so it creates a steady cash flow.. But like anything.. If it isn't done on a regular consistent basis ones work can get pretty sloppy or take a really long time.. Both are bad habits to get into and the horses will let you know and get impatient.. Takes 5-12minutes for a trim all 4 feet, 20-30minutes for front shoes including trimming and shaping shoes.. 40-50minutes for 4 shoes.. These are how long it takes me generally on horses up to size 2 shoe.. When you first start shoeing it will take maybe 1.5hrs until you develop enough muscle to stand in the proper position.. anyhow, keep at it.. As for the blacksmithing and income.. Your time is worth something and if producing nice stuff should be charging accordingly.. I want to say is: don't low ball your work just to sell something.. It will come back to bite you in the end.
  12. there are ways to get some education before you get exposure.. The links I posted will give you some info and if you are really interested it will serve as background info for when or if you start your training as a farrier. Sometimes, there are road blocks or obstacles to what it is that you want to do.. Sometimes those road blocks test to see what it is you really want.. Old expression.. Where there is a will there is a way.. Timing was/is everything.. and there is no such thing as coincidence.. what did you get out of watching him?
  13. Nice work.. Looking forwards to seeing projects..
  14. Hi Marc1, Here is the thread I started on it.. No sand box at least not yet, that's the work area infront of the garage. The stand is designed for maximum stability and resistant to twisting forces if using the hardie hole with a fork or the like.. It can be put up on one side and walked around if careful enough and quick to move out of the way if it does fall over.. It's nearly 700lbs combined and can be filled with scrap or lead for extra weight.. A fork lift would be a great way to move it around right now.. once the shop is up i am undecided as to what floor I want in the forge shop.. It takes this into consideration with flotation or a large surface area of the bottom.. but also will work just fine on a wood or cement floor. Really designed to be built once and good for eternity.. Here's the one in the trailer.. That is the only thing that is important..
  15. While i get the gist of why this thread was started.. I think personal preference comes home.. From like day 2 of starting forging I realized a steady, solid work base was a needed thing.. I also figured out in short order once professionally smithing that depending on what one is making can make up the difference for how things are mounted or connected.. Same has rang true for smiths forever.. I've seen all sorts of mountings over the years.. Personally I like my anvils mounted not only solid but solid enough where you can not get them separated without some major work involved.. I found I dislike short stumps or stands that are short wood unless fully dug 4ft into the ground or bolted down solid enough where you can hit the side of the anvil with a 16lbs sledge and it worn't move.. This same setup I mention is the same setup I used for 15yrs.. LOL.. It was all that I could do at the time and it was better than 90% of what was out there.. With all that being said most the time it's unreasonable to expect others to want or even consider such mounting ideals. Personally I would never use a tripod stand as they are 2 flimsy for my liking but see the advantages the design offers for most.. I like you can stand right next to it without smashing your toes.. But again.. I am also willing to spend my time creating the items I want to work on.. What I like is usually a little over the top.. I have nothing against what others do or use or create for their own shops.. It's actually nice seeing all the different setups. A lot of it comes with experience and the OK factor.. It works OK, why change it.. I drive old worn out looking cars and trucks.. Do I have to "NO".. It's just not that important to me to drive in fresh looking cars or trucks.. Nor do I even want to spend money on them.. Do I need to have a really nice anvil to do really nice work.. "NO" but it helps with clean up so it makes it a little faster, Do I need to polish my hammers faces.. "NO" but it certainly helps with clean up.. I do get it but everybody has their own space and time frames.. Not everybody wants to be a professional smith or work to excellence.. Good enough is well, good enough..