Chimaera Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I seem to remember it mostly being black, but I’ll test some anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Got together with Frazer and Latticino for Thai food (not shown) and hammer making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Cool. Which is F and which is L? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Wait, isnt the young guy that is supposed to be striking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad J. Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The place that will fill my hundred pound propane tank had been a pain to get to, closed on Sundays and by 5 so I've been doing finish work as long as I can stand to be in the shop. I did my first stacked leather handle on Monday and did some shaking on it last night while also starting the finish sanding on the blade of this side dagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I'm the young guy who should have been striking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3F Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Man... hammers, daggers, swords. I need to get my butt in gear! Frazer here is what you taught me. Using WI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Very nice! Another tool in the toolbox. It looks like the less refined wrought you found is working well for you. Have you tried canister damascus for the bit yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLeod Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Great to see ifi folk working together in the real world 10 minutes ago, M3F said: Using WI That axe looks brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I knew I'd seen that nice, handmade leather apron somewhere before.... Looks like fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 hours ago, BillyBones said: Wait, isnt the young guy that is supposed to be striking Old school hammer making with hand cranked coal forge and strikers. Good times, but I would have brought a sledge with a shorter handle if I had known what was planned. Think I had only one bad strike all night, and that is the one John captured in a photo... Fraser has a nice little forge setup with a lot of hand forged tongs, made quite well. Another young smith with great skills and a promising future in the craft. Hard work does pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3F Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Thanks MacLeod! Yes Frazer that is the less refined WI and I now have a love hate relationship with it. I don't have the slightest idea what to do with the high refined iron. I put all my canister damascus in the last iron in the hat but I will make more and try it when the weather breaks. I still have that twist pattern I made but I'm scared to use it! I'm thinking of finding a knife guy to finish it for me. I'd like a tanto style full tang made but alas I'm not a knife maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Old School? Coal use for smithing is high/late Middle Ages ("Cathedral Forge and Waterwheel", Gies & Gies) and the hand crank is less than 150 years old IIRC. Not too "old" out of 3000 years of smithing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Well shucks, you're going to make me blush. He probably picked that picture just to see if you'd notice The shop was even conspicuously clean for their arrival! Sorry TP, I think he meant to say "traditional". *takes cover* Mark, as we discussed after that demo, if you do a canister bill-bit, I would try to keep the carbon content of the billet in the medium carbon range (or at least the low end of high carbon). This is especially true if you want to weld it to a WI body. The significant difference in max/min welding temperature between WI and, say, 1095 or 1084 might to give you trouble since there is a lot of mass to heat up and the beard is just hanging there by itself. That being said, with proper fire control the weld can certainly be done either way. Methinks you could add pieces of WI to the canister and allow the carbon to migrate out of whatever powder you're using and reduce the overall average C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Frazer and Latticino, good work. That's a nice looking hammer. M3F, I like the little hand axe. I've tried making a couple of those with no success. Once I get some thicker mild steel I'll try again. I have precious little WI as it is haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 A nice long evening at the forge. Finally assembled my 2 tongs (finished the blanks the 2nd week of januari). Had to straiten everything, making sure they can move (cleaning up) and rivetting. Went well I think. and then I used them to make 2 punches. One from a piece of spring (maybe a bit to thin) and one from a pandrol (half of it). they are now normalizing (cooling down together with my gasforge). Does a punch needs to be hardenend? (On the pictue the big one is red from the heat, I took the pic and put it back in the forge for the normalizing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 17 hours ago, JHCC said: Got together with Frazer and Latticino for Thai food (not shown) and hammer making Nice work, you guys. Inspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.J.Lampert Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 5 hours ago, gewoon ik said: Does a punch needs to be hardened? someone will probably come along and quote a source but my understanding is that tools used for hot work don't get hardened because their use tempers them to a point where the hardening is lost, cold chisels on the other hand would be hardened just my understanding of the little I've read M.J.Lampert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I harden most of my tools, but them being made from a high carbon steel is probably more important. Hardening probably doesn’t matter that much. Cold chisels definitely should be hardened, but make sure the part you hit is soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 6 hours ago, gewoon ik said: Does a punch needs to be hardenend 1 hour ago, M.J.Lampert said: my understanding is that tools used for hot work don't get hardened because their use tempers them to a point where the hardening is lost 1 hour ago, Chimaera said: Hardening probably doesn’t matter that much It depends. Yes, it is possible to use unhardened chisels and punches, but they’ll deform easily and will require frequent reshaping. Yes, a punch or chisel will lose its temper if you leave it in contact with hot steel, but that’s why we cool our tools between hits. Some tool steels are designed for hot work (e.g., S7, H13, Atlantic 33), but each of those alloys has a recommended heat treatment before use. If you’re making chisels and punches from spring steel, a simple heat treatment is easy and quick, and will save you a LOT of time and frustration with tools that don’t perform well. I have a pair of tools I made a few years back from Pandrol clips: a hot chisel and a round punch. Both were hardened and tempered. The chisel is going strong and rarely requires sharpening. The punch lost its temper when I didn’t quench it often enough during a particularly vigorous forging session, and before I got around to rehardening and retempering it, it was a source of constant frustration: mushrooming in the hole, leaving ragged edges, etc. In other words, this is one of those “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should” situations. Most of the time, a properly heat-treated tool will last longer and give better results than one that isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 7 hours ago, gewoon ik said: normalizing (cooling down together with my gasforge) Does that mean you let the cool very slowly in the forge, or let them air cool outside of the forge while the forge was cooling? If you the them cool in the forge, that is much closer to annealing than normalizing. Annealing would only be needed here if you plan on a lot of filling, drilling or machining. It will leave the tools much too soft. At a minimum bring them back up to a non-magnetic temperature and let them air cool, but personally I would harden and temper them. JHCC’s advice is very sound. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Nice work everyone. I found after a couple years of use that my favorite punch holds up much better after I hardened it. Sill gets red hot but seems to last way longer before dressing. Wouldn't annealing also normalize or do you need repeated cycles of cooling to normalize? Also I made a little statue from a half RR spike. Used said punch in the 1.5” thick base for the mortise and tenon join. Styled off something I saw on the web so I took some license here. I think it turned out pretty good and I call him ‘Loitering’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I heat treat all of my hot work tools. Yes, you lose the temper on the working edge, but you don't lose the temper above the working edge. This will keep your tool usable far longer. Also, there are two ends to your tool, a working end and a struck end. I always heat treat the struck end, and draw it to a dark blue. This is soft enough to not splinter and it is hard enough to not mushroom with use. Finally and most important, this question is most often asked by those new to our craft, so, it is an opportunity to practice heat treating and the more practice,,,,,,, is money in the bank of knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 X2, same here on my hand tools, chisels, punches, etc, etc. 4140 I will usually run 2x heat cycles on struck ends sometimes 1x still seems a little to hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Rojo Pedro said: Wouldn't annealing also normalize or do you need repeated cycles of cooling to normalize? Normalizing and annealing are two different processes. Normalizing relieves the residual stresses from forging and can help refine the grain structure. Annealing makes the piece as soft as possible for ease of grinding and filing, but leaves a very large grain structure that must be refined before hardening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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