Heat Treating Knives, Blades etc

A question on the difference between normalizing and annealing when making a knife. My understanding from reading an artical by Ed Caffrey is that Normalizing is heating a blade to non magnetic and allowing it to cool to room temp while setting in a draft free area. This is to allow the internal stress to relax in the metal. Annealing is heating to non magnetic and then placing the blade in a well insolated materal so the blade cools very slowly. This reduces grain size of the steel. My question is would not annealing do the same thing as normalizing? I am not understanding why you need to do both. Thank you for any help in my understanding of this confussing (to me any…

leaf spring forged knife 5160 fired up my new coal forgeheated some fryer oil with a couple of heats of some cast iron scrapheated my blade till it was red and the magnets didn't stickquenched it in the oil, moving it front and back, not side to sidefile skidded off without gouging itlet it coolcooked it in the oven at 400F for 2 hourslet it coolcooked it againSo it cleaned up nice (aside from my amateur grinding skills) and sharpened very sharp. I also made scales from some black walnut I cured from a tree that fell in my yard a couple years ago and the handle looks very nice. Is there a way to see how well my hardening and tempering did? A guy at work said put it in a v…

Heres a short video I did this week on the basics of heat treating and a simple explanation of the processes taking place. This is by no means a complete guide to heat treating, more a bit of information to help build an understanding foundation. -J

A friend of mine from the ABS gave me a plate of aus-8 @ 5"x36"x0.625". Now I know its a Japanese stainless (almost a 4 letter word, I know) similar to 440b and its used in commercial knife making by SOG and cold steel, but has anyone ever forged this stuff? I'm assuming he gave it to me to get it out of his shop and because, unlike him, I have the equipment to dice and draw this thing up into useable billets. The heat treat is fairly extreme (compaired to my usual steels) and rather specific but I figured I'd give it a go just to say I did. First though I'm gonna take a drive over to a friend who has an XRF gun just to make sure it is what I've been told it is. J

What would happen if one would quench in a very cold liquid? Let's say liquid nitrogen. Would it crack into a million pieces, explode,...?

Would it make sens to temper a knife/tool more if it's intended to be used, let's say, in the Arctic? The cold would make the steel more brittle so tempering at a higher temperature to increase tensile strength and toughness would make sense, wouldn't it?

I was given 4 gallons of food grade hydraulic fluid. I have some knives my mother in law wants me to make for an upcoming show she is doing. My question is, will it be safe to use as a quenchant and anti rust coating on said blades? Thanks in advance. ~The Mad Rabbit

There I was sanding a knife ready to go out to a customer, when I notice this strange shadow along the blade. It doesnt sand out, and I am not sure it's even really there. After a day of polishing and soaking in acid turns out it was a hamon, and I wasnt even trying for it. Really excited about this, my crappy camera doesnt do it justice. This was with 1095 too, which I thought I understood was harder to get these kinds of results with. Anyway I am super happy and had to share this with ya'll.

I posted this question on another forum, but it probably applies more to topics here. It is more of an electrical question than blacksmithing. A friend has a small oven about the size of a microwave. Where he got it, I don't recall. The oven was a high temperature type used by a company to test the residual ash content of coal after baking out the volatile components. He indicated it has only one heat, and that is HIGH...about 2000 deg. F or somewhere in that neighborhood. Beyond that, I know nothing else about it. He would like to use it to heat treat and temper knives and other steel to temps of anywhere from 400 deg to 600 deg instead of the one high heat. Is there a …

Hello - My sons and I have been interested in knife making for some time now and we recently took a class on blacksmithing which had the content of forging a knife out of 1060 spring steel. It was a great experience and we want to dive deeper into smithing. We were not able to finish our knives though in the course of a day. We were able to finish our blanks. I think our remaining steps are to finish shaping on our grinder/sander, heat treat (3 step process? tempering and hardening?) then sharpening polishing, then the handles. I don't have a forge but I have a pile of coal. From what I'm reading it looks like you can treat 1060 by heating then quenching in water or brin…

Last night I quenched my first tanto. It's made out of 80crv2, I coated it in rutland fireplace mortar, going all the way to the edge in thin strips in some places (the pattern kind of shows up in the oxidation) and quenched it in warm canola oil. After I scraped off the clay I ran a file down the spine and it bit in and it skated on the edge so I know that it differentially hardened to at least some extent. I have two questions: first, should I have quenched it in water? I didn't want to at first because I wasn't using a simple carbon steel. Second, I was wondering if there's any way to check if there is a hamon in a blade before the final polish. On pattern welded blade…

I threw my d bit in fire until red then threw in shallow pan of motor oil which combusted then left sit until cool. Now looks black wit a reddish color wondering if annealed properly and if heat treating is more complicated than single bit axe

OK, So I was unable to start my " Real Rail Roadspike " knfe project this weekend, unfortunately the weather and my forge both decided to play against me. So I started doing more research on the process to use the O1, Annealing, heat treating and such to ensure I had a good understanding of the process, and I found something that created a question in my process. I notice a few different metal sites state to temper immediately after hardening, which considering I will be forging this in a Coal forge, I am very reluctant to do what with the better half having issues with me sticking dirty ugly scaly items in our normal stove to heat treat. From what I gather the reasons …

I went to blacksmith today and saw how he heat treat his tools. First when draw out axe he than grind it, After that he heat it in fire to cherry red and then he cool it in bucket off water. After that he use heat again than after quenching he put axe again in fire and than chase right color for the blade. You will see better in this video.

So i came across the youtube vids on Moriss knives and he commented that he does not harden his blades that he aneals them instead ,so my question is he just putting them in a oven at 400 for a hour or is he bringing them to critcal then letting them cool on there on say in ash or vermecalite ? anyone have any plans on his grinder setup also?

A friend of mine found an old beet knife in the rubble of his garage when his family tore it down. It was bent pretty good and so he asked me to straighten it for him. I took out the bend with a torch and a hammer. I was trying to keep the temper but I failed when I let the heat run through the blade. I hardened it today and then I tempered it at 200 F for about 20 minutes. Then I went to sharpen it and that is where I ran into my problems. I barely started putting the edge on when a a sizable piece came off as I ran the stone over the blade( I do all my sharpening by hand). The only thing I can think of is I didn't temper the knife long enough or at a high enough tem…

I recently had an opportunity to work in L6, a steel I've not used before. I ran across a thread from another forum which suggested that L6 could be treated as an air hardening steel. I wanted to test this before getting in too deep. I took some cutoff from the project and following this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/655904-All-about-L6, used the procedure in the PDF below. I had 4 coupons of the steel (Aldos L6, 0.225 not ground to remove the decarb) 1 I left as delivered 1 air quenched with no temper 1 air quenched, tempered @ 400 for 2, 4 hour sessions 1 oil quenched, tempered @ 400 for 2, 4 hour sessions Detrich at Podforge allowed…

Hey guys, I've been reading about the 1080 steel and how to heat treat it. I don't have a propane forge or anything... I've been reading that you need to heat it to 1475 then quench it, then put it in the overly for hour and a half twice at 350... lol sounds like a casserole. How am I supposed to know how hot it is?? Better yet how do I make a fire that's even that hot? I saw a guy on one video use a charcoal grill and basically put a hair dryer on the side and blew air into it. Also read just heat it up until it is non magnetic then quench and it should be fine.... am I on the right track here? What is the best way to get it hot without a forge? Thanks Matt

Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or in the heat treating section. I forged out a single edged sword shaped object about a year ago and haven't found the time or courage to heat treat yet. Blade is forged from virgin 5160 John Deere load shaft, single edged with a slight curve like a cutless. A steel I've played with and has shown me good edge holding with outstanding toughness through knives with blades up to 12". I've been going back and forth over how to heat treat, I'm leaning towards a full quench with a soft back draw to the tang and ricasso area. The other option is an edge quench, which is what I do with most of my knives, or possibly a clay coating.…

does anyone know what material axle shafts are made out of? I forged a sword and want to get it hardened so I can finish it. I can send it to a heat treating place that we use at work but they are going to want to know "what it is?" and "an axle shaft" won't work! thanks for any help.

Hello all. Yesterday I took what may be the first step on the slippery slope of changing my forging focus to blades (something I thought I'd NEVER do when I first started out). After taking a couple of weeks out of the forge dealing with vehicle issues and avoiding the 90+ degree heat, I fired up the forge yesterday and decided to try my hand at damascus. I had a few old 6 TPI long sawzall blades that are approx 1/16" thick. I ground the teeth off and sandwiched 3 pieces of 1/8" mild steel between 4 sawzall blades. Folded 4 times for approx 100 layers, used a sharp hot cut to make a ladder pattern and after 4-5 hours of forgework made myself a little mushrooming blad…

I tempered my first knife a day ago at about 400 degrees( my toaster oven only goes by hundreds of degrees). I put it in the oven and left it there for two hours. When i pulled it out it came out looking like a rainbow.What did i do wrong? I've spent some time thinking about it and i've come up with a few ideas as to why that happened. I put the knife in the oven diagonally because that was the only way it would fit, the middle of the knife turned blue right where that knife rested, above the heating element, on the rack.The blue is interrupted by a bronze strip exactly where the knife rested above the heating element. The reason i'm wondering what happened is because i t…

I'm having a hard time hardening my steel. I'm a glass blower so I have an electrics kiln that I use for glass and now heat treating. I set my digital pyrometer to 1575 and when it hit 1200 I put the blades in. I let it hit 1575 and tested the magnativity of the blades and there was none. I took out the first blade after letting it soak for 10 mins then quenched in oil and let sit till cool. Did the same with blade two. I tried to file it to check hardness and the file cut right thru. So I take it it didn't work? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Also it was 5/32 x 2" x 8" long

The heat treating books from ASM are increasing in number, besides the 1991 edition of volume 4, Heat Treating by ASM, there now is: Practical Heat Treating / Edition 2 (2006), by Jon L. Dossett, and Howard E. Boyer and now a 2013 edition ASM Handbook, Vol 4A: Steel Heat Treating Fundamentals and Processes Editor(s): Jon Dossett and George E. Totten And New ASM Handbooks, Volume 4B—Heat Treating of Irons and Steels, and Volume 4C—Induction Heating and Heat Treatment, will be published next according to the ASM website. I have a copy of the 1991 edition of volume 4, which of the heat treating books by ASM or other publisher is/are be…

I have been searching, and I may be dense, but I am having trouble getting guidance on the proper pre-heat temperature for a quench oil. I am guessing that this is probably because there are NUMEROUS variables. Possibly because none is needed... But some guidelines on this would be great...! My specific question: Material 1084 (ordered from NJ Steel baron not Aldo...) 5/32" thick 6" long blade with full taper. 2" wide max part of the blade McMaster Car Quench 11 second... Local conditions: southern Louisiana, July. Current ambient/oil temp ~80F - 90F I am not concerned with ability to get the right metal temperature for the quench nor the tempering …