jukejoint Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So i came across the youtube vids on Moriss knives and he commented that he does not harden his blades that he aneals them instead ,so my question is he just putting them in a oven at 400 for a hour or is he bringing them to critcal then letting them cool on there on say in ash or vermecalite ? anyone have any plans on his grinder setup also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 why ask us? ask him. Annealed is not going to hold an edge, so you already lost me me, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Please take a step back and look up the terms 'harden', 'anneal', and 'temper' here in the heat treatment section. I only suggest this because it sounds like either the source is bogus or you may have misinterpreted the terminology or chronology of the work and without knowing the depth to which the confusion reaches it will be difficult to remedy otherwise. Once you have cleared up what those processes are for yourself your answers will be self evident (sorry for the fortune cookie response) = Learn to speak Chinese Hello = "Knee - how " lucky numbers 23,14, 56, 87 Just wanted to help finish the fortune cookie :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Quick reply. File=hard,brittle as made. Heated to critical, and quenched. Tempered= some give,less brittle, by heating to a below critical temp for a determined time. Annealed=dead soft, bendable, by heating to critical and allowing to cool verrrrry slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukejoint Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 okay i get the just of this process ,my question is how does his process work ? iam trying to post the link to the video but having no luck. At 2.27 in the video he says there is no heat treating process that the files start at around a rc hardness of 60 and and i quote ( i anneal them to around a rc of 50) thats it ,now knowing what annealed is how does this commint hold up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 He has his terminology screwed up, he is tempering them down to a lower hardness, NOT annealing. And what he is doing is a form of heat treating, so he is all confused. For a file knife I would leave the edge as is, and temper the back spine softer. This should give you a good edge, with a softer springy back allowing it to take a little abuse before possibly failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 yup sounds like typical misinformation and personally I would temper the whole blade down a bit and then draw a further temper on the spine as I don't like knives breaking on me. But it very much is a matter of personal preference! Note that, IIRC, this way of making a knife was covered in the Last Whole Earth Catalog back in the early '70's. SCA Armourmakers tend to use the term anneal when what they are doing is normalizing and many people use the term tempering to refer to hardening. Knifemakers are expected to know the differences in the various steps of heat treat and use the terminology correctly by other members of the craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Sounds like either he doesn't have a clue or has his terminology mixed up. Either way I'd question if he knew what he was doing. I had a gentleman purchase a file knife from me a few years ago. He also brought a knife he'd bought from a guy who sounded like the maker "knew" what he was doing when he made it because it wouldn't hold an edge. That brought knife was made from a saw blade and had never been heat treated, it was junk. The file knife he purchased, it cleaned 3 hogs and never had to hit a stone. After a few years he came back and purchased a few more. Like Thomas, my method is to grind the file hard being extremely careful not to over heat (any heat color at all). Give it a 425F temper and soft back draw. It should be noted, not all files are the same. I throw away or pass on many for being inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukejoint Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 thanks for clearing up the info folks i new that yall would have a idea about it ,bout one of the best knives i have purchased was a Bob Doizer blade skined 6 deer before it need touching again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Good Morning, I watched the video(?), I heard him say "that a file is already too hard, over 60 RhC, He heats it to soften it to about 50 RhC" He is not forging the knife, strictly Stock Removal, He says he doesn't get it too hot to upset the Hardness/Temper. Maybe I was watching the wrong video, or maybe my mind didn't hear the Aneal part. :unsure: :) Happy Almost New _eer!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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