Mikey98118 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 "T" burners seem to work well as ribbon burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 26, 2021 Author Share Posted August 26, 2021 Yes, your mig tip is slightly out of alignment, it's clearly low in the 1st. pic. And yes, it's still a LITTLE reducing, it's close to what I like in my forge but I run slightly reducing burners. Just not that reducing, you're close, it's trim with sand paper a couple strokes at a time, close! I discovered T burners work better in ribbon burners. They're more stable and aren't affected by breezes, it takes a fair gust to effect the flame. If your drill bit is deflecting in the T try filing a flat spot for it to start. Sometimes the parting line is enough to make it hard to pilot and drill straight. It depends on who made it as to how much and where the parting lines are. Plumbing fittings are produced by the lowest bidder. Heck, if you're using your lathe you could face the center before drilling, just don't get carried away Ts aren't very thick. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hefty Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Hehe, yeah, I learned they aren't real thick when I broke through the edge of that tee earlier Two questions then: 1. Is my alignment what is making my burners touchy to light? I've seen videos of people lighting them with a single "touch" from a burner torch but I have to hold the torch at the tip and really fiddle with the pressure to prevent huffing out or burning back until it heats up a little. 2. Will these alignment and lighting issues still be as evident in a NARB if I use your 90* turn mixer/plenum style, or will this render that a non-issue? Cheers, Jono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hefty Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Ok, so after a bit more reading I turned the threads out of my pipe coupler nozzles just enough to create an even step instead of a step and then another restriction and both burners now light reliably. This has put me a few steps back in my tuning but I'm happier with less hassle lighting them and I know I shouldn't get too hung up on tuning them properly until they're mounted on a forge. So, I guess my previous questions are now void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 You may find it fires up easier when mounted in the forge. Mine starts right away but runs a bit wonky for a few seconds until a little heat smooths it out. I also like to warm up my forge with the doors mostly closed but opened once it gets hot. Your results may vary I think the flame looks pretty good and I would mount that bad boy and heat some steel - good luck and have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 I use wooden kitchen matches to light my forge. I either prop a lit one on the stap between the apron and the interior of the forge and turn on the gas with the regulator set to my using pressure---sharpie mark on the base near the handle. Or I turn on the gas and flip a lighted match in the open door---more exciting for new smiths in my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 I light mine by turning on the gas, sticking the nozzle of a stove lighter in the forge, and clicking the piezo sparker. Even if the lighter is out of fuel, it should still be able to generate a spark to ignite the forge's gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 27, 2021 Author Share Posted August 27, 2021 I open the tank valve, toss a little scrunch of lit paper in then slowly open the 1/4 turn shut off valve. They light right up and smooth out when the shut off valve is opened all the way. Sometimes I use the Bernzomatic torch if I don't have any dry paper in the shop. Long handled lighters work too but the starting poof tends to clear the hair off my hand. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Drives off the mosquitos, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 27, 2021 Author Share Posted August 27, 2021 Only for a couple seconds. Now if we could get them to congregate in the forge I might invest in an igniter! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 I was noticing recently that with all the rain we have been getting we actually had mosquitos! Anyway I found that when I was close to the propane forge the mosquitos seemed to be confused and didn't land on me but away from the forge they were able to home in on me. I was wondering if this was a CO2 effect or a temperature effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJustice Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Probably a little of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 Yes, both CO2 and warmth. Mosquito traps use a small propane flame to generate both and when they get close a fan sucks them into a bag to dehydrate and die. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 HMMM case hardening compound? "This knife blade was made from steel case hardened with 100,000 mosquito bodies---Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 They were making mosquito Wootzzzzzzzz. In the Elvish smithies of Gondolin. You don't think Bilbo named it Sting by coincidence do you? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 That was Wasp Wootz of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savlaka Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Frosty, I've never built one of your burners but, something I used in my current burner build might make a good mod to your base design. Have you thought about drilling the Tee to accept 1/4” pipe thread and using a 1/4Npt to 5/16" compression fitting. ( Or an 1/8” if you can find it) Then use 8mm brass tubing to hold the mig tip. If you loosen the compression fitting (and don't crank it tight in between) you'd be able to slide the 8mm brass tube in and out to tune instead of cutting and filing it to it's final stickout... You'd likely need to drill out the base of the compression fitting a bit, but your not after a pressure seal at the Tee just an adjustable fitting... I used 8.0 x 1.5mm wall (5.0mm ID). the 11T sized mig tips (6.0x1.0mm thread) fit very well in one end and it fit a 5/16” compression fitting perfectly for the other. Just an idea for Y'all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 I did something similar to what you are describing. The compression fitting had an insert stop ring which I had to drill out to a tight tolerance so the mig tip central alignment would not have too much slop. I also made a narrow cut in the compression ferrule to prevent it from seizing. Though I still don't tighten the fitting tight. There are some pictures of it on page 11. I have also modified a brass reducer bushing to make a rough collet. Drill out the inner threads to match the orifice tube and then cut slots through the threads. This way when tightening the reducer fitting, its tapered threads compress the fitting and clamp on down on the orifice tube. This wasn't my idea. I believe I first saw it done on the modified side arm burner sold by high temp tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savlaka Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Frankenburner, Opps, I guess I missed that when I was reading through the thread. That is quite similar to what I was suggesting... I know for me at least, reboring a hole is easier than getting a new hole centered perfect, and the 8mm tubing is usually fairly good at actually being 8mm so a good 8mm bit can make a good tight fit. Never thought of trying to make a split collet, I figure that'd be a bit more work for most lightly equipped shops. Not impossible, just more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 There are a number of ways to make a T burner with an adjustable propane jet but most as those described above defeat one of my goals designing this burner. My intent was an effective burner a person with minimal shop skills and equipment could build and tune. Turning a MPT brass fitting into a collet is as easy as making a couple slices with a Dremel, drilling the through hole for a close fit on a long mig contact tip and it's a done deal. A coupler of the appropriate size makes the nut and locks things in place. It's the sort of things I expect folks with decent shop skills to figure out so I didn't mention it. There was however a method figured out be several people almost simultaneously. Rather than tapping the T FPT it's tapped with a straight thread. A 1/4" scd 80 pipe nipple has the pipe threads removed, cleaned up and tapped 1/4" 28 or 27 or whatever metric pitch in which your mig tips come. The pipe nipple is threaded to match the T, for a couple inches, a nut is screwed on and it's screwed into the T. The nut is a jam nut to lock the jet in place. You connect the propane supply to the far end of the nipple. That's it, easy adjustable jet position so tuning is as easy as twisting the nipple and locking it in position. You can make this jet mount with the T still jigged to the drill press table and keep everything aligned properly. Lots of guys come up with alternate methods for making up to the propane supply some better than mine, some insanely complicated. It's all good, it makes me happy to see good mods and I adopt them. I didn't put the T burner in public hands to keep it my design. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliff Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) Well, after reading your posts, and getting some solid advice, I'm ready (I think) to make my first forge. Planning to use Frosty's design for the T burner, fabricate my own shell, and line it according to suggestions I've found in other posts. One question I have, with a thought that goes along with it, is the connection between burner and forge. If this is way off base, someone please let me know. I'd build the burner as shown, and mount to the forge with a street 45 and floor flange as shown in Frosty's pic. on the bottom side of the floor flange, inside the forge, I'd connect a close nipple, with end turned down to match a TIG nozzle. size the nipple so the TIG nozzle is through the liner by approximately 1/2". I'm thinking this for two reasons: Proper nozzle size & shape, heat resistant nozzle to extend wear. A #15 nozzle should fit real nice: .... Commercial link removed.... Edited October 16, 2021 by Mod30 Commercial link removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Interesting idea, but I think you may find that the differing thermal expansion rations between the ceramic nozzle and the burner pipe threaded to it may be a problem. This will be particularly evident when the forge is turned off after a work session. It sounds like you will have your burner semi-permanently mounted and the radiant heat from the forge will heat the parts after it is off and the air gas mixture is no longer cooling the burner. I'd stick with a heavy wall stainless steel nozzle and protect the very end of it with castable forge lining, but you idea is worth a try. Note: the sales link will likely be removed by moderators shortly based on the site TOS. For other's potential interest here is a photo of the nominal 1" TIG ceramic nozzles in question: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Kliff said: mount to the forge with a street 45 and floor flange as shown in Frosty's pic. I know there is a pic in the instructions that shows this, but I'm not sure it's recommended. My experience with T burners is anything that impedes or changes the direction of the fuel air mixture flow before it enters the forge tends to negatively affect the burner performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 How you mount the burner to the forge isn't nearly as important as it's actual position. The floor flange only works on a vertical down mount as seen on pics of my old shop forge. I've never had good results feeding the flow to the forge through a bend, I have a couple 45 elbows in my plumbing parts box that didn't work. The NARBs have T inducers oriented into the plenum at 90* but the plenum is a large chamber with outlets that equal several times the area of the inducer. I made several models to determine the number of outlets (nozzlettes) necessary to balance flow velocity at the outlet against the rate of propagation of the flammable mix. Tig flow nozzles might work but in the real world they do NOT have to survive the kinds of heat living on the edge of a propane forge produces. It's worth an experiment or two though, I look forward to the results. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't work. And NOTHING in a propane forge is permanent, it's all susceptible to wear. Even the shells wear out. That said mount the burners in a way that's easy to remove or adjust their orientation. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 TIG nozzles break apart in moments, when in contact with these flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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