T Burner Illustrated Directions

[Frosty]

That's good enough for me, thanks Mike.

Frosty The Lucky.

[M.J.Lampert]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:18 AM, ThomasPowers said:

I use wooden kitchen matches to light my forge. Or I turn on the gas and flip a lighted match in the open door---more exciting for new smiths in my shop.

ah this is the way i do it now i used to use a torch strikes and went through flints to fast for my wallet then at Dollarama i found they have boxes of 250 kitchen matches for 1.99 so this works out nicer no bunt hands etc.

M.J.Lampert

[ThomasPowers]

You can also hold the match in a pair of tongs to lite the forge: Light match and place in tongs, hold in front of door while opening the gas valve on the tank, Cackle (optional).

[Frosty]

Do you guys have something against a little wad of burning paper to light the burner? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Latticino]

That is what I use (left over from 10+ years of lighting my glory hole for glass blowing on a daily basis).  Have to say at the school I sometimes teach at the push button sparker propane torch does an easier and cleaner job, but those are much smaller forges.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes, it blows out into the shop!

[Frosty]

Tissue paper blows ash, newspaper a few little flaming bits, notebook paper holds together well enough to frighten the newbies. 

I'd like to have one of the torch thingies metal shop teachers used to light the melters and forges with. It was a twisted wire handle IIRC 18-24" long with a ball of cotton yarn(?) on the end. They had a cap attached about 4" from the end and fit in a can. Think of the applicator on a can of ABS cement. Anyway, there was a flammable liquid in the can, and the torch lit with a striker, the melter or forge usually blew it out when it lit but if not sticking it back in the can snuffed it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Blue flame butane torches do well at starting burners; especially when aimed through side air openings. Burners with end openings can do the same trick, if a small flame hole is drilled near the rear of the mixing tube.  A short ring, similar to a choke sleeve can be moved back and forth, to cover the hole after ignition. There is always a way to do what you want.

Okay, there is usually a way

On 10/18/2021 at 12:05 PM, Latticino said:

That is what I use (left over from 10+ years of lighting my glory hole for glass blowing on a daily basis).

Glass blowing; what fun that was! Do you do slumping or any other warm glass work?

[Frosty]

What I hear most from people who light burners through an air intake are questions about why they burn in the mixing tube or if the mixing tube is supposed to turn orange. 

When I'm somewhere sensitive about brush fire I hold a little burning tab of BBQ lighter fluid drizzled cloth or twine with tongs to light up so burning stuff doesn't blow out of the forge. I've done similar with a longish stick and a little oil.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

If the gas pressure isn't high enough, then the flame will not be pushed forward from the mixing tube. If the gas pressure is too high, starting combustion toward the rear of the mixing tube helps blow the flame completely out. Like everything else, there is a learning curve. This method is just another choice. People have to make their own choices.

[Latticino]

4 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

Glass blowing

Mikey, Just off hand glassblowing for the most part (working with molten glass).  Tried a bit of casting, cold work and torch work, never slumping.  Was fair at casting, but annealing is so time intensive.  Grinding and polishing cold work is for perfectionists and gets old fast.  Never took to torchwork either, but I was a pretty fair glassblower.  Have posted images of my stuff before, so won't bore anyone with a repeat.

[Mikey98118]

From what I've read, casting glass is maybe as classy as warm glass work gets

Slumping is maybe the easiest introduction to warm glass; not that it has to stall there.

[Jdub2]

 T Burner Illustrated Directions,

is there a down loadable version of these instructions somewhere? The pdf file in this thread fails to download for me, I have spent hours searching with every combination of words that I can think of to no effect.

• gas burners

[Frosty]

Do you have Acrobat loaded and running? Or try doing a "Save As" to a file on your computer. That's the only way I can play most movie files like ".mov" on mine.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Another FrankenBurner]

I just went and downloaded it to test the link.  It downloaded successfully.  If you would like, you can PM me your email address and I can send it over.

[Jdub2]

Thanks for the replies, I only have access the internet on my phone, but I can read pdf files and was able to download from link that Buzzkill provided for me. I haven't worked out the kinks of posting yet. I tried posting to my thread but was unsuccessful.

[Frosty]

Having it printed makes it easier to make in the shop. Have a library close by so you can download and print it? Print shops will do it for you but it's more expensive.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Kliff]

Thanks Mikey.  Saved me a bunch of time.

[mcheese]

Not sure if it's mentioned in the previous 22 pages. But for the flare a 1:12 taper as described in the pdf is not 12 degrees it's 2.386 degrees.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard mcheese, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header it'll improve your chances of hooking up with members living within visiting distance. Also many questions and answers are location depedant.

A flare on a burner is the opposite of what you show in the drawing. Here the drawing shows a diminishing taper, not an expanding taper.

It shows me that we're possibly misusing the term "Nozzle" in reference to the burner's outlet end. The purpose of flaring the outlet of a burner is to first reduce pressure in the mixing tube which enhance combustion air induction. And secondly slow the flame velocity increasing the time it remains in the forge's interior shedding energy to the forge liner. 

A nozzle on the other hand accelerates and focuses the flow into a column. Not what we want for a burner flame.

Thank you for pointing this out mcheese, even if it's not what you were really trying to say. If nothing else you're shown WE are confusing things and we've been trying hard to make this clear and understandable. 

Great first post!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Another FrankenBurner]

I presented the exact same angle (2.386°) in burners 101 quite a while back, had a triangle drawing and everything.  If remembering correctly, the 1:12 taper came from Frosty, years ago, out of some burner patents or technical papers.  Though, it was describing a tapered mix tube not a retention nozzle.  

The angle is important in that the included angle is almost 5° which I was told is the fastest you can expand without causing stream turbulence.  Venturi tubes often open at 5° after the throat. 

It may have been expressed as 1:12 taper for the turner.  At some point, I found a chart which listed different taper/lengths and their DMS equivalents for cutting on the lathe.  I don't know for sure.  

As to the nozzle in our case, the wall thickness of the mix tube creates a step which causes turbulence before the taper comes into play.  I have found the nozzle taper is not very critical if flame retention is the only desired function.  

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

we're possibly misusing the term "Nozzle"

Agreed.  I think that is why Mikey now uses 'flame retention nozzle' instead.  It's been in use a long time over many sources though.  Any idea's on alternative nomenclature?

[Mikey98118]

The proper technical term was always flame retention nozzle; I simply got used to shortening it to "nozzle"for brevity, since I use it so much in my notes. Then, someone became confused over this, and I went back to writing out the full name, for clarity. If I use it more than once in a paragraph, the first mention is writen out in full, and thereafter it gets shortened to "nozzle."

[Frosty]

Yes, I got the maximum increasing 1:12 taper and turbulence from tech brochures regarding: linear inducers, jet ejectors and air amplifiers. 

I don't know where the 12 degree description came from but it got repeated often enough it stuck. Perhaps 1:12 and 12* just got confused and . . . here we are. 

I never checked the angle, my bad for repeating the wrong number. I AM sure I'll never remember 8.386 degrees so will stick with the ratio. That I can remember.

I'll have to remember what I THINK nozzle means evidently isn't so. That I'll correct directly. I'm no different I sometimes don't realize what I think isn't necessarily so. 

I'd like to offer Mcheese my thanks for your post and diagram. I'm always grateful when someone tells or shows me I'm wrong. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BayardStrachan]

Building a T burner, I woild like to use 1mm mig tips that I have on hand, would these work

[BayardStrachan]

dont worry actually, turns out the inches to mm converter was set to inches to cm instead so when i put in 0.035" it said quite rightly 0.0889cm, i read it as 0.0889mm and promptly got very confused.