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Another FrankenBurner

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Everything posted by Another FrankenBurner

  1. I have made a few, on the fly, for odd jobs that didn't need to waste propane. Even with the Morgan K26 bricks, they crumbled fairly quickly. I have thought about a sheet metal skin and a coating of plistex to see if they would hold up longer. Here is bad picture of a half brick forge for a ring I was working on:
  2. I did something similar to what you are describing. The compression fitting had an insert stop ring which I had to drill out to a tight tolerance so the mig tip central alignment would not have too much slop. I also made a narrow cut in the compression ferrule to prevent it from seizing. Though I still don't tighten the fitting tight. There are some pictures of it on page 11. I have also modified a brass reducer bushing to make a rough collet. Drill out the inner threads to match the orifice tube and then cut slots through the threads. This way when tightening the reducer fitting, its tapered threads compress the fitting and clamp on down on the orifice tube. This wasn't my idea. I believe I first saw it done on the modified side arm burner sold by high temp tools.
  3. I had thought about the parallelograms in the past. At the time I was thinking something like the hybrid burner only with diagonal cutouts. I was going to print a scaled paper cut pattern. Something like this: If anyone is interested in doing so, I can send a scaled printable pdf so long as I know the OD of the pipe you are working with, and the desired length and angle of the cutouts. I have been curious about it for a while. As to the noise level, even with full baffle walls, it is more the constant drone in the background that can get to me. The forge noise and my tinnitus play tennis together I think. I shut the forge off and something in my mind relaxes. Almost always, I am wearing hearing protection so it doesn't bother me. It's usually just when I am in the forge with someone else and not wearing the muffs. If we start using jet engine parts, I will have to get better hearing protection. Hefty, I think that will make a great hand torch. It's a healthy flame. I have a 3/8" version with a bent angle iron pistol grip. It is very handy. I have to admit, my mind took a double take on your baffle wall image. I'll leave it at that. As to the baffle wall, this post in forges 101 talks about it. Keep on tinkering. It is good fun.
  4. I sure don't mind. I think it's great. I'm excited for you. Straight off the mix tube is fun but once you put a nozzle on it and step up the velocity, it will roar. I think I once called it an angry little jet. You can't help but smile when you hear it the first few times. I am now playing with ribbon burners to quiet that roar. After several hours, the noise gets to me. Very important, try to keep everything axially aligned. In your picture, it looks like that is not the case which is why the flame is not symmetric. The orifice and mix tube alignment being the most critical. A small misalignment in them can severely compromise the potential. I saw your question in burners 101 about beveling a Mikey hoping to get more vortex. Did you try it?
  5. That is a bummer hefty. As you said though, you learned heaps. Knowing more about your burners will make future troubleshooting easier. When I made some Frosty T's with the lathe, I threaded the tee onto the mix tube and centered the mix tube. So long as the mix tube is concentric, the hole will be drilled In the tee, centered on the mix tube, no matter how far out the tee is. Plus there is no measuring to determine where mix tube center happens to land on the tee. If I am remembering correctly, Frosty suggested it to me. It almost takes the work out of it. Nice dig Tink. Interesting find. Over thinking Teflon tape... we can be friends.
  6. Your presumption is correct. The mig tip is a stream shaper. We want that fuel to be in a fast collimated stream down the middle of the mix tube. The mig tip is also a metering device. It only allows a certain amount per pressure. Right now you have an uncontrolled amount with who knows what kind of shape, potentially causing all kinds of turbulence. Too much fuel and not enough air. Until you fix it, there is no point in attempting to tune. I have used gas tape and thread dope. Both work. I'm not sure of the reasoning that you read against tape. Perhaps because if it is installed incorrectly, pieces of it can make it into the gas way and plug the orifice. If you go the tape route, make sure not to tape beyond the last thread on the orifice inlet side. Nice job. You are getting close. Soon you will be thinking about shaping metal instead of about burners.
  7. "You mean I should back the regulator out every time! Why?" I like valves. Bottle to regulator, to ER shutoff ball valve, to hose, to second shutoff ball valve, to idle ball valve with bypass needle valve, to individual burner needle valves, to burners. Control freak maybe?
  8. Also, don't try to close the needle valve with extra torque, after it has seated, in an attempt to get it to stop flow. There is a reason the knobs/handles are so small. Metal needle, metal seat. Anything over just seated risks deforming the needle and/or seat. Finger tight. Same idea with the valves on your propane tanks.
  9. 0.236" is a tad under 1/4".
  10. Freon tanks should be evacuated by the disposer. Even having evacuated my own cylinders, I still add a couple of steps to purge potential trace amounts. Open valve (green arrow) and make sure there is no pressure present. Using a center punch or a drill, pop a hole in the blow plug(white arrow) as it's easy to get through. I like to then push compressed air into the hole in the blow plug which will vent out the valve, for a few seconds just to make sure all that is in the can is air. From there, I will angle grind, plasma cut, and weld on the cans without worry. I have been warned that the paint on the cans is not the greatest thing to breath. I generally angle grind with a flap disc and a respirator but I have also thrown hot coals inside the can to cook the paint to make removal easier. These steps are worth doing as some of the byproducts of burning various refrigerants are pretty nasty. Hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid to name a couple of potentials. I've heard phosgene as a byproduct but I have also read that in unlikely in typical burning type scenarios. The accidental production of phosgene I read about involved cleaning parts with chIorinated brake cleaner and arc welding which if I recall correctly required ozone production. I have seen hvac guys try to "tough through it" and it has had some very bad results. If you open the valve and see liquid coming out or lots of pressure, take it back to the disposer as it was not properly evacuated like it should have been. Some places require the disposer to purposefully put holes in the cans.
  11. I'm still around. Just when I thought life was slowing down, it had other plans. Not much to report on the burner front. Four forges in the hands of four smiths. I have not heard a complaint yet. I have spent a bit of time testing the burners in two different forges and the only negative I've got is that they are quite loud after you have listened to them a while. I think it is time I start working on a NARB. I continue to work on the burners in my mind. I'm not sure if it is progress or madness.
  12. Same story here. Harbor freight black digital set, less than $10. They are metal though. Within a thousandth of the dial Staretts. I own a few sets for doing things I wouldn't think of doing with the others.
  13. Is this what you mean? Page 96 of burners 101.
  14. This is the right place to talk about burners. We can't really answer your questions as the picture you have posted shows us only the fuel connection portion. I do not see a burner. I second ThomasPowers advice to go with a known to work burner plan. (Frosty T, Mikey, Reil burner etc.) Built to the plan. Burners look simple but have complexities which make their dimensions critical. Unfortunately, there are a lot of YouTube videos with burners which are bad examples. It's easy to make fire come out of a pipe. It's more difficult to make efficient hot fire. Especially if you don't know what it looks like. Known plans make success much more likely.
  15. Just to put it out there, you can link directly to a post. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/46536-burners-101/page/13/?tab=comments#comment-528496
  16. Are you looking for 2D CAD software? There is a freeware called LibreCAD. I pointed Tristan in that direction a while back and within a couple of days he sent me some work he had done in it. I use TurboCAD mostly, so I don't have much experience with LibreCAD.
  17. I'm not sure how it's being used above because of the metric/standard fun but a mil in standard machinist terms is a "thou" or thousandth of an inch (0.001"). This is needed because in standard, the smallest measurement we use is an inch before going to fractions. Counting in tens is just smarter so when tiny measurements are needed in standard, mils are used. I was raised on standard. Now I use both because I have to. How much I prefer subtract 1 or 0.1 or even 0.01 over multiply the numerator and denominator by 2 or 4 or 8 depending on how small the size change needed, subtract one from the numerator, and check for common denominator to determine the next size down. The most annoying part is working on anything that uses both systems. Second being needing to have two sets of tools which are almost identical but aren't. I'm done
  18. Well that is a bummer. Hopefully better luck with the codierite.
  19. I caught this one but I didn't want to presume it was directed at me. I am indeed reading this. I am still tinkering with nozzles. Currently, I am playing with FAM velocity at the ejection point to see its effect on flame propagation velocity and forge temperature. I have not played with the bull nose shape. I have a dual fuel bernzomatic torch which employs one but it also has a baffle to cause what they call a swirl flame. As far as I can see, the baffle causes the FAM to rotate and slings it to the outside wall of the nozzle which then hits the bull nose, I think to prevent it from continuing to sling outward. I have one of my burners as a hand torch but it has a standard nozzle on it. I have not thought about nozzles specific to hand torch use.
  20. Good stuff. I like tinkering with the turn down range as well. I am curious, if you turn it down to what you consider your lowest end with still clean burning, will the FAM flow through be enough to keep the block cool enough? Or like Frosty experienced, will it run well for a while until the block slowly heats too high and then boom ignition inside the plenum? Your long running stable low end may be determined by having enough FAM flow for cooling more so than just pulling in enough air. If you had more than enough high end, you could sacrifice some high end to gain low end if you needed lower capabilities for some reason. You are liking low end for heat treat purposes? In which case, you are more than happy with 1400°F? Did you run some tests for the surface area of the initial block or did you just size it based on the available space in your forge from the previous burner?
  21. Very cool. I see these plates used in burners at work a lot. I have a pile of them I planned on playing with. Most manufacturers call them ceramic radiant burners or high efficiency burners. Both naturally aspirated and powered air varieties. The powered air versions usually use 3 of these blocks for a large, high output burner. The naturally aspirated sometimes run a low enough output that the flame just barely covers the plate and the plate runs into the orange temperature ranges for radiant heat transfer. I wondered about the cooling factor when run in the higher temperatures of a forge. Your pictures make it look like there is enough flow through the block to keep it cool. Makes sense, the connecting refractory being only as wide as the ports themselves. Little refractory with lots of flow. I like it. I will have to start tinkering too.
  22. Sorry Frosty, I had to put that out there. Those pictures/videos are rough enough that they might make an impact on would be careless grinder operators. I've never messed with those gnarly looking chainsaw attachments. The small round ones or the bar attachments. They are a neat carving attachment but I see myself regretting using one. They just seem too aggressive for such a lightweight powerful tool. I've heard enough horror stories of chainsaw kickback with full size heavy saws. I'm sure some folks use and love them.
  23. I wrote the above to be the other side of the coin. Several members had mentioned their fear of using an angle grinder, in some cases avoiding them completely as they are too dangerous. I get it, lots of people are killed/injured every year by 4 1/2" angle grinders. I wanted to show that with proper knowledge/precaution, angle grinders are a great tool to have. As I know it, the biggest two causes of injury are having a type 1 bonded cut off disc explode throwing chunks at the operator and losing control because of kick back. Both of which, if anticipated, can be minimized. As to the cutoff disc exploding, leave the guard on the unit. DON'T RUN CHEAP WHEELS, as though your life could depend on it. Don't run the 6" cut off wheels on the 4 1/2" angle grinder. Generally the 6" wheels are rated at 10,000 ish RPM maximum and the 4 1/2" angle grinders run faster than that. If you need encouragement, do a search of angle grinder accidents. You will see horrible images of partial wheels sticking out of faces. Hard to forget images. I should not have used the word never with the diamond cut off discs. I was warned to not use them at first until I got the hang of the angle grinder. I use them and prefer them as they are statistically safer because they don't explode. I also like the lesser dust created. I have never had one bind/kick and get away from me but I can see the logic behind the warning I was given. I prefer the way the bonded disc cuts and have only had one disc explode which was because of how I was using it. I had the guard on, my PPE on, I was not inline with the wheel so instead of injuring myself potentially horribly, I put on another disc and went back to work, a bit more carefully. After a bit of experience, you learn to cut by feel. You can feel when you are twisting/flexing the wheel, when it starts to become trapped by the cut piece bending, and when you are cutting against an edge. You learn the most efficient way to cut which mostly prevents kick back and wheel shatter, and doesn't wear the wheel out nearly as fast. When it comes to kick back, think about how you are cutting, how the wheel is rotating and if it does kick, which way it is going to go. Cut in a way that makes it so the kick direction is away from you. If the sparks are flying your way, the tool will kick away from you. Then you can just hold onto it and nothing bad happens. The side handle is great for this. As Stash said above, a trigger or paddle switch is great in that if the grinder did happen to get away from you, it would shut off. Fix the piece you are cutting. Don't try to hold the piece in one hand and the grinder in the other. You could lose fingers or turn the piece into a projectile pretty easily. Angle grinders are running a high RPM with a big wheel. They can change things very quickly which is why they are so great but also so potentially dangerous. It only takes one bad moment or one stupid thing to really change what you have going on. Treat them as such so you don't get too comfortable and they are a great tool. Deimos, thank you for that. I had no idea either.
  24. Passing over the door is your problem. The forge exhaust gases leave the forge, heat rises, and heats up your pipe. Any chance you can get another partial turn on the elbow to rotate the fuel line to the side of the forge instead of passing over the door? Hold the pipe attached to the forge and rotate the elbow, avoiding rotating the pipe attached to the forge. Looks like you'd have to cut the support arm off the forge as it's in the way. An unrelated piece of advice, if you replace that coupling with a union, you can disassemble this thing more easily for maintenance, moving, etc. How long is this plumbing? Could you take a picture of the entire plumb system? Too long and you start adding unneeded resistance which can lower output depending on your blower. Flex line would give even worse problems with resistance.
  25. I understand. I have felt the same way watching people with kitchen knives, axes, circular saws, chainsaws, car jacks, a lawn mower, even a kitchen hand mixer. Lots of stuff has risks. Knowing and caring about the risks helps you stay safe. Watching others who don't always makes me cringe. I have been on several construction sites and seen things that I just had to look away. I've also heard a lot of bad stories when it went wrong. This shouldn't stop a person from using them though. Learn the risks and think before you act.
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