Another FrankenBurner

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About Another FrankenBurner

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    Senior Member

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    Boise, Idaho
  • Interests
    Tinkering, making things, learning, diagnosing, math/science, programming, cad, CNC, 3D printing, machining, casting, forging, welding, carving.

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  1. It is possible. I took a 3/4"(0.824" actual ID) burner which used a mig tip and increased it's performance by going to a 3D printer nozzle. If you are over it and just want to forge, try your burner as is. Post pictures of the flame in the forge and we can try to help tune it the best it can be. If you need/want to go to new build, try a recipe burner. The easiest is the Frosty T. This will reduce the tinkering required so you can get to smiting your metal. If you are playing with a gas forge, learning to interpret flame is helpful. The difference between a tuned burner and an out of tune burner can be dramatic. A difference in forge/flame temperature, dragons breath, fuel consumption and carbon monoxide production.
  2. We made a 4x4x2" mold which we line the bottom and sides with 1/2" of Kast o Lite, we pushed a piece of rigidized ceramic wool into the middle, and cap the top with 1/2" of the refractory. They have held up well as our doors.
  3. That last photo you posted, it may just be the photo but that orifice/jet looks very out of alignment. If so, that is a problem. Out of alignment, even a little, can cause major problems. If you can disconnect the burner from the fuel line and connect it to a water line, this will tell you immediately.
  4. No need to apologise. Since there are no set terms, it is hard to talk about. I understand now. One concern with doing that is that it would take away the ability for the orifice position to be adjusted. I like adjustability so that the burner can be tuned when it in it's final position. I suspect the best jet position may be different depending on the intended use (small forge, big forge, ribbon burner, hand torch). Not that I don't think it wouldn't work. I think it would work just fine with the best average orifice position.
  5. I am not quite following what you mean. Could you describe/define what you are meaning when you say injector tube and also nozzle. I think by nozzle, you are meaning the fuel orifice/jet? By injecting tube, are you meaning a divergent outlet from the throat?
  6. When you say 0.036-0.040 jet, are you meaning actual diameter? I thought you were running a 3/4" injector at 035-045 mig tips with your NARB.
  7. Now that I know the 1mm is measured running the forge hotter than the rest, I setup a burner in open air to take a good look at the flame. I also took a look at the same burner with the mig tips I was running previously to see if I noticed a difference. Previously I had run this burner with the 030 mig tip. I forgot I had run it with the Miller 030 mig tip because it ran better than the generic. The Millier is at 0.037" and the generic is at 0.039". With the 1mm(0.0394") printer nozzle, the flame is shorter and louder. It is exactly what Mikey describes as a neutral flame. A uniform light blue color.
  8. That is the "small" forge which is at 185 in³. It has 1 inch of blanket and half inch of kast o lite. The next will have 2 inches of blanket, 3/8 inch of kast o lite and a coat of plistix 900F.
  9. We are using these nozzles with a printed/cast inlet chamber. In the image of the forge, you can see it. Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean.
  10. There is no dent or burr. I was excited about playing and made the connection too quickly/sloppy. The printer nozzle was brazed in at a small angle. I am a full convert. 3D printer nozzles over the mig tips. Working with brass instead of copper is great. These induce more air per orifice diameter. I suspect they are putting out more fuel as well. Thanks for the suggestion G-son. We made up several new tips with the 0.4mm, 0.5mm, 0.6mm, 0.8mm, and 1mm 3D printer tips. We drilled out a few to 0.043", 0.046" and 0.052". We have quite an assortment to play with now. The 3/8" burner does well(in free air) with the 0.8mm and the 1mm. It will be interesting to see what it does in a forge. I suspect it will back down to the 0.8mm. We ran the small forge for several hours while swapping out tips and leaving the pressure alone. It has the 1/2" burner which originally had an 030 mig tip. We tried the 0.8mm, 1mm, the drilled out 0.043" and 0.046". We listened to the sound, inspected the main flame, monitored the dragons breath, and did some temperature measuring. The 1mm tip is hands down the winner. No dragons breath, violent loudest roar, 100°F higher forge temperature. At 5 psi we are running 2450°F in the forge. It is interesting that the 1mm(0.0394") was the replacement for the 030 mig tip which measures at 0.039". On that thought, we drilled one out to 0.052" to match the 045 mig tip in the foundry 3/4" burner. This burner turned into a whole different dragon. We are looking forward to the next pour for a real test of performance. I am now planning a 1/4" burner which uses these. Maybe a smaller burner, just because I have the tiny orifices to go with it.
  11. We have been testing the 3D printer nozzles as jet orifices. I had one which performed much worse than expected. I connected it to water: Hmm. We were a little quick with the assembly of this one. More care with alignment. Since I had the water rigged up, I checked several tips. Most of them were great. I had a generic mig tip which the tip itself was aligned but the jet veered off. As to the printer nozzles as orifices, the 0.8 mm and the 023 mig tip are similar bore. When connected to water, the printer nozzle stream jets out twice as far as the comparable mig tip. When put into the 3/8" burner, the flame is shorter and has a roar. It looks very good. I like it. I am going to try the 1 mm in the 1/2" burner next. I think I will have to drill out the 1 mm to larger sizes to find a good match for the 3/4" burner. You can get a few larger sizes but they are not common and the range of sizes falls off.
  12. I was meaning that the term naturally aspirated does not describe the shape of the burner tube. It simply means it does not have a powered air supply. Mikey burners are a straight burner because they have no reducer. Reil burners are constricting. The inlet constricts to the mix tube. Add the tapered outlet and you have what looks like a Venturi tube. They use the terms convergent section, throat, and divergent section when talking about Venturi tubes.
  13. I had picked up on disdain for Venturi. Now I understand. Thank you for the information. It is disheartening that history is filled with so many examples of trading integrity for notoriety and a pay check. At least you can't really know about Venturi without knowing about Bernoulli. To use a Venturi flow meter, you have to use Bernoulli's equation. Not every Bernoulli is a Venturi but every Venturi is a Bernoulli, kind of thing. I think I understand what you are meaning with the mechanics. You are saying that the same dynamics which entrain air in a burner without a constriction(e.g. a Mikey) are also responsible for some of the air entrained in a constricting burner? For nomenclature, Venturi burner is an industry term. So is naturally aspirated, which is interchangeable with atmospheric, but this describes any burner which isn't blown/gun/powered/forced air and is not a description of constricting burners vs straight burners. I recently found the term inspirator but it also describes the naturally aspirated device which could be constricting or not. We can use the term waisted in lieu of Venturi, but it opens the door to "My burner is so waisted that it can't work."
  14. I don't believe the curve has anything to do with the measurements of the pitot tube aside from preventing turbulence at the ports. The center port is pointed parallel and into with the fluid flow so it is being pressurized by both the static and dynamic pressure, the total pressure. The side ports are perpendicular to the fluid flow so they are pressurized only by the static pressure. The difference between the two measurements is the dynamic pressure. With these measurements, the Bernoulli equation can be solved for velocity. In a plane, you can determine your airspeed. In an HVAC duct, you can determine the air velocity which can be used to calculate air volume.