JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[jlpservicesinc]

another banner day yesterday..  Got the stove pipe in and the chimney up and cap and seal installed.. 

Installed new door gaskets 

Now the new to me combo coal/wood/oil furnace is installed and fired up.. 

learned a bunch..  Because the building is steel corrugated the flange that would go outside has to be mounted inside.. 

The original hole was cut for the flange size.. which turns out only needed a 10" hole vs a 12" hole.. 

The flange seal I bought is designed for roof applications but figured it would work just as well for side wall..  Sadly with metal buildings there are a bunch of items which don't seem to be out there unless in the know, or adaption is relied upon. 


 

[Rojo Pedro]

Looks good. That is one serious furnace!

I think we ran our heat pump like three times this year

[jlpservicesinc]

Mr Pedro, thanks, it sure is.. Was so excited getting it lit.. 

We had several days in single digits and a - or 2..  many days in the teens.. 

The dual fuel will be really nice..  Wood, coal, used oil, kerosene, or fuel oil or diesel..  The options are pretty good.. Once the Propane is installed I can install a propane burner if the desire is there.. 

So after some thought I came up with a plan for the pipe wrench..  It worked mint.. 

Aligning the pipe went super well.. Could not expect it to go better.  I put a couple of blocks on the side of the pole and then leaned the Rigid over some till I thought it was aligned..  It screwed right in.. 

the wrench only needed 1 redesign because there was no way to get get the bolt section on the wrench body.. 

The teeth could use to be a little sharper but overall a raging success.. 

[SinDoc]

O they made you do a 4" rigid riser on the pole? Thats rough. Out here they let us use PVC schedule 80.

[ThomasPowers]

Is that a road behind the pole?  One reason I went buried is to avoid "vehicle interaction" with my power!

[jlpservicesinc]

SinDoc I can not get a straight answer from anyone including the electrical inspector..   The National grid spec sheet calls for RMC.. The town over and a few examples in Rutland do use sch80 pvc.. 

So, I just followed what was in the NG 750B..   They want 2 hole clamps every 30" but everywhere I look, they have 1 at the top..  I installed 3..  Sign of a newbie.. More than likely.. But it's what it shows.. 

Thomas, that is the main Rd..  Or I should say Kenwood Dr..  I went with Buried and conduit so the wires would not be overhead and a problem.. 

For overhead NG supplies the wire and the full distance to the building including a pole install if needed.. 

with underground the owner is responsible for everything from the pole.. 

[jlpservicesinc]

I picked up this Marvel power hacksaw 6SA and a camelback drill press that was custom modified so it would use a small car gear box to power it.. 

The Hacksaw is 3ph and the drill is 1ph.. 

Here are the manuals for the Power hacksaw.

22693.pdf 5923.pdf 5924.pdf 5925.pdf

[Chelonian]

Very cool. I'm sure those will be great additions to the shop!

[jlpservicesinc]

Thanks.. I'm hoping they will find a perfect place..   Once I get electric installed I will start shop layout for the machine shop area and welding and metal prep areas..   

The items not used will go up for sale.. At this point of my life having and extra 3 or 4 of something is not really needed anymore..      Or is it????  

[arkie]

Jen, nice finds on the saw and DP.  Since you will be having a number of students, I would recommend putting the extra stuff in a storage...never know if or who/when you might need some or all of them.  After your school is established, you could then get rid of the stuff absolutely not needed.  Never know, a student or two might need a piece of the stored stuff.  I know storage can get expensive, but you are a creative solution finder!

[Frosty]

I agree, having an extra 3-4 of everything is just wrong! You're falling well short of the idea in backup equipment and tools! If you pack them tight in storage it won't take up much room and you'll be producing budding young blacksmiths, some are bound to make it professionally and they'll need equipment. Who more natural to ask about  finding some than their instructor and mentor? YOU!

Oh, as one last note. If you had enough . . . stuff, you wouldn't keep bringing more home. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Arkie, Frosty, I am in a constant dilemma..   

There are items that all my life I have wanted from very early on..  A Columbian #3 tire bender, a number 3 Champion tire and axle shrinker. A 2 or 3 speed post drill (which I owned a 3speed which got scrapped) and now 2, 2 speed,  A bolt making header setup. (missed out on a complete bolt making shop back in the early 90's).. A bolt and screw threader hand crank machine.   A few other items which now have joined the shop.. 

Then a back up or 2 for certain items..  and then if possible sell off the rest of the items..   To students or friends or whom ever..   

At this point of my life I'd really like to get the shop completely organized or as close to organized as I can where everything is able to be used and I'm not tripping over stuff and it's easy to clean..  

I used to be a neat freak and now I simply walk around or over everything..

Would I love to get more stuff.. For sure.. Am I always looking..  Yes..   Just like the latest Champion Drill press..  She is a biggin..  Model 201..  I thought the Cannedy Otto New model 16 was big..  LOL..   Not even close.. 100lbs more would be my guess on the 201.. 
 

Latest addition..  Got it a few weeks ago.. 

Champion model 201 This one has the addiion for belt drive and electric motor.. 

[arkie]

Jen, I wish I had your predicament with the equipment!!!!!  I recognize and respect your problems.

BTW, that old Champion post drill is a beauty!  Looks stouter than a Missouri mule. (even if I live in Arkansas...)

 

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Arkie, Frosty, I am in a constant dilemma.

I'm pretty sure that's because you're a girl. Guys are much better at explaining things after they do them than planning in advance. 

I have a Champion 2001/2 post drill I've never mounted, it's missing the table and arm. it's been packed in the Connex since I don't remember. Now I'm thinking I should pull it out. Heavy is an understatement, even in pieces you need a hand truck or cart. Still, if I take some measurements and take them with me garage/yard/etc. saling I might run across a table that'll work.

Frosty The Lucky.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Frosty,

might run across a table that'll work.    A Pick Nick Table? LOL

Neil

[jlpservicesinc]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:58 PM, arkie said:

Jen, I wish I had your predicament with the equipment!!!!!  I recognize and respect your problems.

BTW, that old Champion post drill is a beauty!  Looks stouter than a Missouri mule. (even if I live in Arkansas...)

 

With 40 years of collecting I'm surprised I don't have more..      I did lose some items and it's kinda crazy how it still bothers me..  Not being one to accept things..  LOL..  

It is amazing stout.. Very much an industrial type..   

The Cannedy Otto New model 16 seems small in comparison..   

I will try to get the 201 mounted where the Model 16 is and move the 16 to where the little hand crank drill is now.. 

On 5/12/2021 at 10:05 PM, Frosty said:

I have a Champion 2001/2 post drill I've never mounted, it's missing the table and arm. it's been packed in the Connex since I don't remember. Now I'm thinking I should pull it out. Heavy is an understatement, even in pieces you need a hand truck or cart. Still, if I take some measurements and take them with me garage/yard/etc. saling I might run across a table that'll work.

Frosty The Lucky.

Even an old table from a more modern drill press could be modified.. A lot of them have solid centers so they just use a bolt thru the U section with a flat bar with a hole in the middle.. 

  
Todays progress was getting the 10ft X 3/4" grounding rods installed..      I figured I would have extra so driving them in past the 8ft mark would mean having that extra 2 ft to hammer on.. 

I actually worked diligently enough to get just about all the 10Ft in the ground.  I left about 4" up so I can still locate them easily.. 

Once I have the grounding wire in hand I will run the cable in a trench and bury them.  

With the angle of the in ground conduit I was not able to put the first rod directly under the panel I ended up moving it over and out to stay away from the footing also..  

I welded this driver up so I would use it to start the rods and then use it to bang on if the rod stopped moving.. 

It worked very well.  the short end for driving when it gets stuck or when it's in the ground..  The long side for using as a pile driver.. 

The weight is decent enough to have some force but not so heavy it can only be moved 5 times.. 

Worked like a dream with the longer rods.. 

[Bantou]

When driving ground rods, it’s usually easier to “float” them in. Jam the rod into the ground by hand several times until you have ~6” of rod in the ground. With the rod in the ground, move it in a circle until you have created a “funnel.” Remove the rod (it should come out easily at this point) and fill the hole with water. Work the rod up and down in the hole without jamming it into the bottom (it will get stuck if you hit the bottom too hard), you are basically creating a water hammer to move the dirt. When the rod starts to feel “sticky” in the hole, remove and add more water. Rinse and repeat until the rod is at desired depth leaving about 6-12” extra. Drive the last little bit with a sledge to “seat” the rod in the hole.  
 

This method works extremely well in sandy soil (I can have an 8’ rod in, in less than a minute) and better than a hammer or driver in clay soils. Rocky soil is about the only time a driver is more efficient.  

[Steve Sells]

I use a hammer drill to drive them in

[Bantou]

Even better! Lol. I saw the driver laying there and assumed she was beating them in by hand. The co-op I used to work for wouldn’t let us put them in the pole holes under the pole. Spec is 2’ off the pole and 1’ under ground level (not that it really makes any difference, in the ground is in the ground). I was the new guy at the time so I got to drive the ground rods. Had to use the driver for the first couple weeks until somebody had mercy and showed me how to float them in. 

[Frosty]

No good way to drive ground rods into glacial till, I even rented an electric jack hammer. I ended up using the back hoe and only driving the bottom couple feet. The slide hammer I made was way too heavy of course, about 25lbs+. I confess I suffer from the, "if a little is good a lot must be better" syndrome, though I try to control it. The hammer is great for driving T fence posts though, put it on the post, stand them up till it's balanced plumb and two taps puts a fence post below the barbs. I just look like a wimpy dork using a hand truck moving it to the next location. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[M.J.Lampert]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

No good way to drive ground rods into glacial till, I even rented an electric jack hammer. I ended up using the back hoe and only driving the bottom couple feet.

if you rented the powered shovel anyways just get a friend/family member to hold it till you have it held with the bucket then have them back up. then just push/wack it in. if you don't have enough power then add some rocks to the bucket and continue to push it in. We have done up to 4 ft in the ground in about 1.5 min

M.J.Lampert

[Frosty]

Wont work in glacial till, not on something as small as ground rod. Glacial till is made up of particles that range in size between almost clay small to train locomotive and larger. Then it's been compacted by a few thousand feet of glacier rumbling over it for a few thousand years.

Sometimes a ground rod will snake between cobbles and boulders to depth, other times there's nothing to do but pull it and drive another a few feet away. Getting a 10' hole with the back hoe took almost 1/2 hour. 

Till is the densest unconsolidated soil on earth. Just a little denser and it's conglomerate sedimentary rock. 

If I had access to it I would've liked to set up one of the portable drill rigs and piloted the hole with a tricone and water driven B casing, dropped in the ground rod at depth and pulled the casing. It would've gone about as fast as excavating it with the back hoe but it wouldn't have beaten me up like that bucking Case. 

I made holes in till for 20 years as an exploration driller. Given my choice of choices I'd use shaped charges The samples just don't make the lab rats or engineers happy.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Bantou]

Didn’t you give me tips about using a hacksaw earlier? If it’s that hard to drive, they aren’t going to pull it up to check it. 

[Frosty]

Good point. It's not like we actually need the ground rod that deep right? How much ground rod do you need in dry ground to safe a dead short in the panel?

I'm not dismissing your tips, I appreciate them. I'm just intimately familiar with making hole in the soil conditions on which we built. Being glacial till, a lateral moraine to be specific was a deciding factor for me when we bought the land. In the 23 years since we built the house we've experienced two 7+ quakes, one high 6 and I don't know how many high 5s. The worst damage we've suffered were a few fallen pictures and stuff off shelves. 

When the quake shock waves reach us they're typically a jolt, the ground is too solid to roll or quiver and so well drained liquefaction just can't happen. The most recent Nov 30 2018was a hard vertical motion shaker. A coffee cup a couple pics, one scared to death cat and a dresser tipped over was it.

The dog is Libby, a 145lb. Great Pyrenees Mountain dog, the boulder is a granite glacial erratic about the size of a VW Bug that I know for a fact will stop a d6 cold without quivering. I was making a shallow pass, striping the organic overburden off and rolling it down the hill. I got to going pretty fast it was so easy to push. The guy working with me said the tracks came off the ground maybe 2'. I had dents in my shins from them being thrown into the dashboard. I can still feel the dents though they stopped hurting after about 8 years.

Erratics that size aren't everywhere but there is literally no telling where one is until you find it and it's far from a really big one. I exposed a dozen + big boulders, what I call pickup crushers, it might fit but you couldn't set one done easy enough to not seriously damage a 1 ton pickup. You can't dig hole the size of a weber grill without having to pry rocks from basketball to fist size and they're packed like concrete. 

Sorry, I've lived with this stuff, good and bad ad tend to get going, nobody believes how hard it is to dig, drill, etc. It's why I use 22d spikes for tent pegs and sometimes have to move the tent to stake it down.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

12 hours ago, Bantou said:

When driving ground rods, it’s usually easier to “float” them in. Jam the rod into the ground by hand several times until you have ~6” of rod in the ground. With the rod in the ground, move it in a circle until you have created a “funnel.” Remove the rod (it should come out easily at this point) and fill the hole with water. Work the rod up and down in the hole without jamming it into the bottom

I really like that methodolgy.. If I ever have to do it again I will try it..    We live in an area with a very high percentage of rocks.. 

There is a top soil layer about 6-12", then subsoil about 8", then a sand layer with some decent sized rocks about 12", then a layer of clay about 12"  then a bunch of huge rocks just stacked ontop of each other for about 3 to 4ft.. Hitting one of these larger rocks pretty much means disaster.. 

I've have pulled a rod or 2 that simply stopped and then proceeded to bend into an S underground.. 
 

9 hours ago, Frosty said:

No good way to drive ground rods into glacial till, I even rented an electric jack hammer. I ended up using the back hoe and only driving the bottom couple feet.

Amen..  Brutal..   I knew better to make it to heavy..  Was just right..  1.25X.25" sq  Was perfect.. Even when coming into contact with rocks it would still move if only a very little but I wasn't beating myself up using it.. 

Between fabricating the driver pulling the manlift into position and driving the 2 rods was about 1.5hrs.. 

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Good point. It's not like we actually need the ground rod that deep right? How much ground rod do you need in dry ground to safe a dead short in the panel?

Here only 8ft is needed per code and 5/8".. 

I went with 3/4" and 10ft..   I used both a 6lb and a 20lb sledge hammer when the time came..  

Since I was by myself there is nothing like hitting the rod which is stuck on a rock 4ft down and there is no way to pull it back out.. 

The driver worked very well and once I got to the 6ft mark there was enough with the driving on it to spank it with the sledge and the tool keep the rod from moving everywhere.  

Worked mint..  

Glacial till is some tough stuff. While not as rich in it as you..  We have some here from when the retreat took place and a place I worked at had the stones stacked like it was an underground wall..  It was terrible..