1forgeur Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 JLP, That one has somewhere to lay a hammer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 LOL.. This one had me rolling on the floor.. Nearly peed my pants.. LOL.. Big Hug to you.. One of those moments of Ah, ha.. thank you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1forgeur Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 yep, you got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 17 hours ago, foundryguy said: Cheers! The people that probably dont like it are most likely ferriers and they tend to like a thin heal. I cant wait to see the double horn. I know there is a lot of london pattern anvils in the world but it is getting hard to find double horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Antique double horns are in the minority, but look on ebay and there are still lots for sale. And I would wager that there are more NEW German/Italian/French/creative double horned hydrids currently being made than London patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Actually in the *world* the london pattern is not all that common save for perhaps commonwealth countries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 The US was never in the Commonwealth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I should have been more specific. It was the antiques i was referring to. This is the reason for more manufacturers making them now. There is a demand for them but the supply is lacking. At least here in the states. Im Not the biggest fan of new anvils. They are a little soft for my liking. Im looking for something in the 55-60 HRc range and as far as i know there isnt any new ones. If im wrong please correct me. This is why i asked foundryman if he could get them above 55HRc i know you risk edges chipping but if they are rounded slightly it wpuld help and also not trying to bend cold steel over the edge and not hittimg the edge with the hammer would also help. But i would rather have chipped edges than hammer marks in the face from the inevitable miss every once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 JlBlohm - the Peddinghaus #12 275lbs i bought last spring is propably 60rc.. A file skirts off with little to any cutting.. one of the hardest anvils i have ever worked on.. puts all the old one i have to shame in terms of hardness. Refflinghaus from what ive read is 59rc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 JlBlohm, if you are worried about dinging the anvil face, soften the hammer face so it is softer than the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundryguy Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 JLBlohm, I am not sure if H13 can be hardened above 55Rc and honestly i am not sure what material could be? 98% of the H13 I sell is in an annealed condition for machining purposes and that is 20 to 25 Rc. Foundry people talk in BHn hardness and anything over 35 Rc is considered a very hard casting. I pour some nihard and manganese steel but a good hit with a sledge and you could break the horn off, not just chip the part and you could never machine it flat. I would love to know the material something that hard is made of. That said, the only way to know is to burn a small sample on a spectrometer to check chemistry as I am always skeptical. Also, my shop is in Holland and i have property up by you. If you ever care to see my product send me a private message and maybe we can rendezvous at the Brown Bear some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The Shelby brown bear is only a 1/4 mile from me. I would really like to do that. I have a friend that really liked the looks of your anvil and we have talked about them a few times. He really wants a Michigan made. Maybe after we get back from my trip to new hampshire to get the anvil i just bought we could do that! As for getting the anvil in the 55-60 range would be a higher carbon content than .45% but then the larger the anvil the softer the face starts to become because of the fact that it is a huge heat sink and it is hard to fully quench an anvil of that size and then the fact there is so much heat it gets an auto temper from its own heat. And it only gets a surface hardness. The best way to get an anvil in the 60HRc range would be to make a high carbon and high alloy air hardening tool steel. In the long run would save on the heat treating because all it would need is a tempering cycle. Then all you do is choose your tempering temp to leave the steel in the 58-60 HRc range. I know that Rhino anvils are air hardening steel that is through hardened. I belive it is a steel used to line the walls of rock crushers. The metalergist for the foundry that makes rhino anvils is a regular member on https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/ his name is Jerrod Miller. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.incandescent-iron.com/rhan.html&ved=0ahUKEwjkrvq7mf_ZAhVp9YMKHeTEDDQQFggtMAE&usg=AOvVaw0Zq0I32AfjmIoe_7zFjeDL on there home page they talk about the alloy used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 60 HRc converted to BHn is 653 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfordForge Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Hey guys! This forum is awesome, some really great reads and advice (thanks to everyone who contributes and maintains). I just bought my first anvil, pick it up in a couple of weeks, so I've got some time to get the shop sorted. So, heres a couple of pics of the anvil (which needs some cleaning with a flapper) and its stand. Anyone got any ideas what it might be? I think its roughly 100kgs from what I can see of the englishweight on the side. Would you guys keep the stand, or do you think wood is better for dampening ring? Cheers Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundryguy Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, JlBlohm said: 60 HRc converted to BHn is 653 Yes sir, that is a hardness number that is not common in the casting world. .45 C is not uncommon but I do not pour it often. We chose H13 as it is a big runner for us and very common at heat treat facilities. My biggest hurdle is heat treat cost. $0.30 to anneal so we can machine them and $1.30 per lb to harden. I have had requests from folks who want them green (not heat treated), not machined or in iron but I do not want anything with my name on it out there that is not completed and in spec. I am in Hart once a week during asparagus season so maybe we can meet up then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Sounds good. Im looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, WestfordForge said: Hey guys! Welcome! Good to have you here. If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! 1 hour ago, WestfordForge said: So, heres a couple of pics of the anvil (which needs some cleaning with a flapper) and its stand. Don't do anything to that beauty except go over it with a wire brush and some oil. The abrasive action of hot metal and scale will polish the surface up better than anything, and you do not want to risk damaging it by excessive grinding. 1 hour ago, WestfordForge said: Would you guys keep the stand, or do you think wood is better for dampening ring? Metal actually is better at dampening the ring. The main question is, does this existing stand put the anvil at a good height for YOU? Get it home and try it out. Hammer on a bit of wood: assuming your stance is good, if the dents are even all the way around, the anvil is the right height. If they are deeper away from you, the anvil is too low. If they're deeper towards you, it's too high. If the height is good and the stand is stable and doesn't rock, I'd keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, WestfordForge said: Cheers What a great find. I wish i could find a beauty like that around here but old double horns are a hard find! Congrats! Cheers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfordForge Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 hours ago, JHCC said: Welcome! Good to have you here. If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! Don't do anything to that beauty except go over it with a wire brush and some oil. Thanks! I have read the guidelines now Received re:wire brush! Good to know that people think it was a good find, it's the most expensive tool I have bought at £250 GBP, so it means a lot that the experienced guys think its a good looking anvil. Good to know about the metal stand. If it's not the right height, I'll try and alter it rather than use a stump. Can't wait to get going in the shop now. Don't suppose you guys have any idea of rough age/provenance ? The nerd inside me is dying to know, but the current owner does not. Thanks for the feedback 5 hours ago, JlBlohm said: What a great find. I wish i could find a beauty like that around here but old double horns are a hard find! Congrats! Hey thanks! I got quite lucky, but I understand that we Brits have a slightly better time getting decent second hand Anvils. Paid roughly 152c USD/lb, which i guess is quite pricey, but the best I've been able to find within reasonable distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I'd have been tempted to go over my $2.00 USD lb. limit for one like that. Nice find. It may have been your most expensive tool so far but it should last you a lifetime of treated right ( and probably someone else's lifetime after) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfordForge Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Cheers Daswulf. My thought's exactly! One for the kids (and probably grandkids) that I've yet to have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Pretty good deal for a used tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 WestfordForge, there is no need to quote the entire comment that you are replying to. If there something specific to which you want to respond, please select just that bit as your quote. Otherwise, excessive quoting makes the forum much harder to read and (for our members without broadband service) much slower to load. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Try to contact Robin Sharples Waterfoot Boarsgreave Developments Ltd Owner · May 2000 to present · Newchurch, Lancashire Commercial Property Owner Rental He is in the UK and has 100's of anvils. He is also quite knowledgeable of makes and models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfordForge Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 JHCC - perhaps '@'ing is what I was looking for. Noted, and thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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