If you could guess, what's your average coal consumption per hour?

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

Hi,

I'm thinking about switching over to coal.

I can get Anthracite locally for pretty cheap. Only Bituminous Coal I've been able to find was online and it's about $2000 a ton, which is insane.

So I'm hoping some of you veterans can give me an idea of how much coal I'm expecting to chew through. I make knives and hammers for the most part.

Thanks!

[Frosty]

You don't want to try burning andesite though you could make a nice permanent forge from it. Andesite is a type of stone, not coal. You meant to write anthracite. 

What are you burning now? 

Have you called any coal suppliers on the TELEPHONE? Trying to contact companies online is a great way to be ignored, especially if all you're looking for is a small amount almost regardless of what it is. 

You don't need to know who sells coal within driving distance of your house/shop just call one, any one. If they don't sell small quantities, deliver, retail, etc. they WILL know who does. Or someone nearer to you who does or will know. 

Finding things you need, want is an acquired skill and can lead to all sorts of opportunities, new friends, great deals, etc. but you must do it in person or on the phone. Online does NOT work. 

I've done part 1 for you, you have to call and ask who sells bituminous (metallurgical) coal in your area. Call: "J and J Energy, Inc.," (545) 989-8570 

You'll get a receptionist who will ask how do direct your call. (Who do you want to talk to) Be brief, h/she's busy. You're looking for ton or less lots of Metallurgical bituminous coal (in YOUR area.) She'll probably say, "Sorry sir we only sell and deliver coal by the trainload, however you might try such and such coal company, their number is x x x. If on the other hand h/she says sorry we can't help you, ASK if h/she knows who does.

You may have to do this a few times and you'll get better the more often you do. If you have the room you want someone to bring you a ton with a dump truck. Have a tarp laid where you want it. Be ABSOLUTELY sure there's room to back it in and lift the bed!! The driver will probably check but you never know. 

A load of bulk coal dumped on site is about as cheaply as you'll buy it. You won't be paying to have someone bag it, the bags, then load it on pallets, or ship it to you by the bag. A guy in the yard picks up a scoop in a loader puts it in the dump truck, the driver brings it and dumps it. 1 ton viola! 

The internet is the WORST place to find real things in the real world, the best it can do is point you at where to start your calls.  

And your original question, how much coal I use has zero to do with how much you will. I have a good friend who collects coal from a local decommissioned mine, legally, and he uses more coal per hour than I use in a couple days. When I burn coal that is. Everybody's different, manages fires differently and heats different things in different ways. Smiths who learned from a master manage the fire in close to the same way and economy.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Another way to find coal is to check with local/regional Blacksmithing clubs. I know that there are several in NY. They usually buy coal in bulk to sell to members. It's hard to judge how much coal a forge uses in an hour. When I'm working on mild steel small stock like S hooks or bottle openers I probably use about a pound in an hour. Working on larger hi carbon steel like leaf springs or 1 inch stock probably four or five pounds in an hour. That's with a hand cranked blower & bottom blast fire pot. An electric blower in my experience uses about twice the coal per hour.

Depending upon where you are in NY there should be plenty of suppliers within driving distance.

[George N. M.]

BTW. where in NY state? The answers may be different in NYC, Buffalo, Rochester, Albany, or points in between.  I second Frosty's suggestion of actually calling on that new fangled device, the telephone.  You will get better results and faster.  If a company can't help you ASK if they know who can.  And Irondragon is correct, many blacksmithing groups buy in bulk and sell in smaller quantities.

My nearest coal supplier is a farrier supply outfit that sells 40 pound bags @ $30 which is $1200/ton.

Buy as much as you can realistically store.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frazer]

I buy my coal (Pennsylvania Smithing Coal) at the same place as the local blacksmithing school gets theirs. $12/50# bag (it recently went up from $10). The Coal Shop off 15A in Springwater.. NY is a pretty big place so that could be 10 minutes from you or 6 hours..

The NYSDB site is still down. We are having issues with reuploading the template after changing our hosting service. Hopefully it will be up in the next several weeks.  If you let me know what region you're in I might be able to get you a contact for your local group at our next meeting (tomorrow).

I don't usually track consumption per hour. I buy 10 bags at a time and go through them every few months, but I'm in the shop 5 days a week 4-6 hours per day.

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

I'm just south of Binghamton near the PA border.

I don't forge every day either. I'm just trying to see if switching from propane to coal is reasonable.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Mod34
Trimmed quote

[ThomasPowers]

Too far away to help; but I will note that a hand crank blower forge tends to use less coal than an electrically blown forge.  With out details on your set up your question is like: "I'm thinking of getting a vehicle; what MPG will I get?" (I know it's unlikely you'll have a Saturn 5 first stage that used 20 tons of fuel per second...)

[arkie]

My usage, when I was still using coal until the mine quit selling the cheaper coal, was very similar to Irondragon in his post above.  I use an electric blower, but economized on burning coal by shutting off the air/blast gate between heats.   I maybe used 2 to 3 pounds an hour for thick or high carbon stock.  Now, with the coal supply being abominable, I have switched over to lump charcoal, which burns much faster.

[Daswulf]

1 hour ago, Nicholas_Killmeier said:

I'm just trying to see if switching from propane to coal is reasonable.

Since a coal forge is not at all hard to make in several different styles, and bituminous coal in our area isn't very hard to get, why not get some, build a forge and try it.

The yard I get coal at is around $90. A ton. My friend just got a truck load at another place we had been wanting to check out. I forget how much it was but not much more. 

Online is not the place to buy coal. You might be able to find the locations online but they don't sell online. They sell on site in person. Usually they load into your truck or trailer but I wouldn't doubt you could fill containers then get weighed out. 

You may find a coal forge is great for some tasks and a gas forge is better for others. 

 

 

[JHCC]

One advantage of a propane forge is that it's very easy to start up and shut down. For those of us squeezing our forging time into an otherwise-busy schedule, those extra few minutes can make a real difference.

[Purple Bullet]

John, you really need to try induction. I still haven't fixed mine and really miss it. Start a pump and fan, throw a switch, step on another switch and within seconds you are ready to hammer. Want a break? No big deal, no extra heat or fuel wasted. I just wished someone in the US made an affordable one. I recall seeing something about a start-up but haven't heard that they actually have as of yet. 

[JHCC]

Definitely something that interests me, but with every spare penny going into my wife’s yarn shop startup, it’s pretty far on the back burner (right behind the fly press).

[Daswulf]

I've worked at a few shops that had decent smaller inductors. They were for use with bolts and smaller areas but were pretty good. Probably could be used for smaller stock. 

The mini inductor I have is fine for heating and bending small thin stock but working any kind of area on anything bigger than 1/4" would be a bit much for it. I bought it for bending small stuff instead of using torch gas, and it is good for rusty stuck bolts. 

[Frosty]

8 hours ago, Nicholas_Killmeier said:

 Binghamton 

Nicholas: Put "Binghamton" in front of NY in your header and folks will stop asking you. You'd have the name and address of what you're looking for already, invites to work in shops, maybe a ride to the next meeting, tools, BBQs, etc. BUT we have to know where you are! Not your address but something a little closer than NY. NY is a pretty large place, what, 19-20 million people on 55,000sq miles?

Saying where you live in one post won't stick in anybody's memory once we leave this thread. PERIOD. However, if you put it in your header it's available every single time we read a post by you. Some of those 20 million residents who practice blacksmithing and read Iforge will know where you are if they're in the area or you live within visiting distance. 

I'm not trying to bust our chops but there are easy ways and hard ways to do things. You'll go farther faster if you listen when folks tell you about the easy ways. Hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

My original post had little to do with sourcing coal, it had more to do with coal vs propane consumption rates, therefore its emphasis in the title. The asking of "where to get coal" was more of a conversational development.

I'm not putting my location in my header. I'm not even really that comfortable about using my real name to be honest.

[Frazer]

I understand wishing to maintain some sense of anonymity, but as someone who has no smartphone and no social media (more to eliminate distractions than "fly under the radar") trust me, those who care enough to seek out your personal information already have the means to do so.

I digress, to each their own. Do what feels comfortable to you. No judgement here.

Back to the point. IMHO coal is a much more versatile fuel source and, at least by me, it's less expensive to run. Again, in my opinion, there are many things you can do with coal that you just can't do with a gas forge. The benefits to gas are the lack of dust/ash, (potentially) superior production work since there is less risk of burning up one of your pieces in the fire and the easy-bake oven aspect of "set it and forget it". Coal requires more maintenance, but comes with many upsides....

7 hours ago, JHCC said:

very easy to start up and shut down

I cheat when staring up my forge. I lay down some paper and a handful of charcoal, pull the coke from my previous fire around that and light it up. I have hot steel in ~5 minutes. Much faster than waiting for the gas forge to heat up (at least the ones I have used which, admittedly, is very few).

--

Okay, okay.. I'll admit I'm a little biased

[Frosty]

Understood Nicholas. It isn't a rule, you aren't the only member who doesn't have a locale listed. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Check how my location is handled---a very specific general location.  You would have great difficulty locating me from it; but have a good idea of what I'm near.

Solid fuel forges are rather trivial to build---folks have been using a hole in the ground for over 3000 years now!

[George N. M.]

Nicholas, to each their own but there is an advantage to having your general location listed besides the possibility of meeting up with others face to face, many of our answers to queries are geographically specific.  You might have had different answers if you were in Montana, Alabama, or even NYC.

In the years I have been on I Forge Iron, using my real name and, occasionally my last name, I have never had any problems and I have never heard of anyone having any issues or unwanted contacts.  In fact, I find the use of handles and noms de internet slightly peculiar.  But as I said, however much or little anonymity a person is comfortable with is strictly up to them.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

[Steve Sells]

I use about 3 or 4 scoops per hour unless I am welding then its more

[Glenn]

Scoops from an caterpillar front end loader or bobcat end loader?  What size scoops? 

[anvil]

Coal is far cheaper and more versatile than gas. Gas burns at the max all the time and that roar of the dragons tongue you hear when working at the anvil is dollar bills going up in smoke. You may only be doing hammers and knives now, but you never know where hot iron will take you next

Frazer pretty well nailed it altho I differ on the gas\production  benefit. I've never been able to outwork my coal forge no matter what the job. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Purple Bullet, I had the opportunity to use a 30KW induction unit where I used to work. It was for zone annealing copper electrical components, but on occasion I used it to heat other things. I could take 4" of 1.25" round bar from room temp to yellow in around 10 seconds. .

[BillyBones]

I switched from propane to coal for the simple fact it was vastly cheaper for me. I cannot say how much i use in an hour but i am usually in my shop Fri.- Sun. running my forge, the other days are for grinding, finish, filing, etc. On Friday morning i will get a 5 gallon bucket of coal and unless i am working big pieces or a lot of welding that will last all weekend. About 20-24 hours total running time. While i am paying about 2x what Das is for coal, that 1 ton of coal lasts me right about a year. I was paying close to $50 a week for propane*, $200 a ton for coal. So in just over a month i would have spent the same amount that i spend for a years worth of coal. 

Now about sourcing coal, do you have any historic villages near you? Or places that do historical re-enactments? Many times those places will have a blacksmith. My coal supplier also supplies some of the local places that do that. You could try asking them where they get coal from. 

* I must state that my propane forge is a homebuilt hard fire brick forge so it is provably not the most efficient thing in the world. 

[natkova]

Charcoal and coal  well half hour or 15 minutes not sure I use those masonry tool.