Jasent

Let’s see some fire pokers

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Had a bit of a disaster today trying to make a basket twist hold three balls instead of just one. Juggling one ball in there is hard enough, but three in a row was really tricky. The two smaller balls on the outside kept slipping through the net before I could tighten them. Three hands would have been useful. I'll post a pic if I can get it sorted.

Still after a more interesting poker handle, I tried this idea with a stairway twist. The twist itself was a bit slender for a handle so I added a scroll and  looped it round to create more mass. I allowed plenty of length in the starting stock to allow for that. A couple of reverse twists and it turned out OK. It didn't really need a collar but I thought I would add one. Two reasons: It would add a bit of finish,  and I have never done a collar. (Usually rivet most things).

Collars are harder than they look; I may have to look up some demos of collar making. My first efforts in the forge failed dismally so I finished it at home with the oxy.

Anyway; here's the poker:

 

 

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poker2.JPG

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Aus that is a great poker.. 

I like that you are always pushing the envelope with adding in the 3 balls..   The trick to collars if making sure you measure correctly..  There is a triangular collar which can be less accurate and still work but it doesn't have the same really clean look if you are looking for a butted collar.. 

here is a bad example  the collars were made overly long to support the 1/2" round for the twist. This is a electic light I made back in the 80's was based on a design someone wanted only to be told after it was made that I could keep it as the couple were splitting up. :) 

This collar though is very useful and applicable in many situations just by varying the length of the legs..  can also be made or closed tighter or looser depending on look wanted. 

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18 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Aus that is a great poker.. 

I like that you are always pushing the envelope with adding in the 3 balls..   The trick to collars if making sure you measure correctly.. 

Thank you.

Yes, I understand that the measurement for a collar like that is critical. I estimated the first one and left it about 3mm short. I also found it difficult to hold the flat collar stock against the poker for the first bend. Vice grips helped a bit, but you lose the heat quickly if you dawdle.

Now, I prefer the butted collar, but the one in your photos looks like a good idea, too.  The length is not so important and the tapered ends look stylish.

And I know it's not good, but here's a photo of my attempt at placing three balls in a basket twist. The balls are secure, but the symmetry is dodgy. I'll have another go, perhaps using 3/16 stock instead of 1/4. Easier to tweak.DSC_9384.thumb.JPG.5480b72d988828037e18141b76ddc02c.JPG

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make the cage shorter, his would leave less room for the ball to travel.. 

the collars are formed in the vise initially if they are not swaged..  If swaged it is usually done at the anvil.. 

What you do is make a sample of the handle with the correct measurements Thickness and width    say 1/2sqx 1/2" sq  this means you will need 1/2" X 6 faces or running length or 3" length ( (hypothetical case:  so if you wanted to use this material::  1/8" thick x 1/2 wideX 3" for the collar starting size))..  This will end up being short as the corners have not been accounted for. I would add about 1/4 if square corners are desired.  This would be upset back into the corners as you form the collar..  

Round collars don't need as much material.. There is a small loss in each bend..  Knowing where you started with material off the bat will mean if you need to you can adjust the leg length to get a fully butted collar after you make 1..    To make the best use of this consistent forging into the collars corners or upsets will keep the results the same.. 

Down and dirty is to again just forge out the size handle, shaft or bars you want to collar together into a vise form for upsetting..  After you have this in hand you can just use it to roll on the stock counting the turns..  When you mark it out put the open sections in the correct position and shape in the vise as in the picture.. 
 

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My pokers are maybe a bit more on the long side .   more for outside fires.   Meant to be able to poke pull and push while standing with little bending.   I think I may have screwed up this post.   More meant to be functional than aesthetic..  This is my first one that has turned into several requests for others due to function.    The forge weld on the business end makes this a challenge for me still.015df162dd202d14090ed9467ad4f0c0cbf48a40f9.thumb.jpg.f94b67cc268a3a6a3d9ec63ea1b97c68.jpg  

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Jennifer, thank you for your detailed explanation of forming a collar. My next try at forging a collar will be much less of a guesstimate.

And BTL, you have a neat design there. A functional poker which can be left or right handed. My leaf handle pokers work better one way. I usually make them right handed unless requested otherwise.

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Jen, you need to add half the thickness of the collar material to get the correct length.

To determine length of bent iron always measure the centerline.

Because:

The inside will be upset and be shorter than your original length, the outside will draw out and end up longer than your cut length, but the centerline will not change its length at all..

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I'm pretty sure the formula for  collar length to deal with measuring the centerline is (perimeter + 2-1/2 times the thickness of the collar).

If anyone has Francis Whitaker's "cookbook", check it there. Mine is packed.    

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11 hours ago, ausfire said:

And BTL, you have a neat design there. A functional poker which can be left or right handed. My leaf handle pokers work better one way. I usually make them right handed unless requested otherwise.

It's hard to see but the hook is about 20 degrees or so rotated from the business end.    It allows a natural hand hold that puts the fire end at a nice angle or more straight up and down.   For me that differentiates a lefty from a righty.

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Hello all.  I can't take credit for these, they came out of Darryl Nelson's forge a number of years ago, but I just got these re-installed in my new stone chimney and thought they could be used as inspiration to someone someday.

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as always

peace and love

billyO

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On 10/9/2018 at 7:10 PM, anvil said:

I'm pretty sure the formula for  collar length to deal with measuring the center line is (perimeter + 2-1/2 times the thickness of the collar).  If anyone has Francis Whitaker's "cookbook", check it there. Mine is packed.    

I use perimeter  plus twice thickness of metal being used for the collar, and find that works successfully

 

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And a nice place to put the welding gloves built right in!  (My wife tends to work the fire wearing gloves.)

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16 hours ago, John B said:

I use perimeter  plus twice thickness of metal being used for the collar, and find that works successfully

you are probably right. I can't remember.

and just to let you know, I've purchased a new piece of ground.. my new shop is going up as we speak, and my books will be unpacked soon.

Your basket in a basket will be my first play piece  Cant wait to give it a try!  

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Still playing around with fire poker handles. This one is today's experiment.

poker handle curl.JPG

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Ausfire, that looks pretty spiffy!

First thing that came to mind, though, was "Man, if those scrolls were BIGGER then it'd almost be like a cross hilt on a sword!"

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Thanks, Hoj. I did think of making the scrolls extend out further, but the thickness is governed by the starting stock which is only 10mm square bar. Long 5mm scrolls would be a bit fragile, so I kept them tight against the handle.

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I would possibly class these as pokers

890373928_Twistedhandlelogroller.JPG.84ec8179c8141b9eab7af74a64bcca33.JPG

1852079105_RamsHeadLogRoller.JPG.fddf0a72be47f451136928f1c338f1cb.JPG

and some details of them for those that like pics

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987905465_RamsheadLogrollerhandleB.JPG.31abb99a0204c5896871290f2e23f48f.JPG

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835239503_RamsHeadLogrollerdetailD.JPG.d2699ad2df08066d6784ad5e70662f1b.JPG

Enjoy

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Nice ram's head poker, John. I like the tight twist which is well defined, and the neat transition from square to round. A fine poker!

I'm struggling to see how you managed the twist in the loop handle poker. It's good because it gives more width to the handle. I'm guessing that you tapered the end and bent the steel against itself. You held the lower end in the vice, while twisting with a bar through the loop??? If that's 10mm square bar, it would have to be very hot to achieve the twist. Pray do tell.

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