General help on a brick forge/ needing info

[Daswulf]

Me thinks he is missing some posts that answered his question. Could be wrong. I'll wait. 

[ThomasPowers]

I think I must be on his ignore list as I've answered it at least 3 times so far!

[Daswulf]

I think he just likes asking. Or maybe you haven't answered with an answer he wants to hear yet. 

[JHCC]

36 minutes ago, old school blacksmith said:

guys HOW WAS I SUPPOSE to know it is one of the worst mixtures that I could use!!!

By doing your research and not believing everything you see on YouTube. Listening to the people here who've already answered your question three times might help.

38 minutes ago, old school blacksmith said:

look; I'm just in need of a mixture that is cheap and it can hold up to forge temps for a few good go around(s). so here's the question that I'm actually asking; what mixture could.... dang got to go back to work i'll type the rest of it in a few hrs

Dirt. If you want to get fancy, subsoil. If you want to be hyper-technical, soil horizon B.

[the iron dwarf]

35 minutes ago, old school blacksmith said:

guys HOW WAS I SUPPOSE to know it is one of the worst mixtures that I could use!!!...... look; I'm just in need of a mixture that is cheap and it can hold up to forge temps for a few good go around(s). so here's the question that I'm actually asking; what mixture could.... dang got to go back to work i'll type the rest of it in a few hrs

research will tell you that it was no good as would basic chemistry ( its a hydrate so it includes water, get it hot and it loses the water and goes back to dry powder, very hot and it does it very fast ).

if you do a little research in the gas forge section rather than here in induction heating you will find answers or you could try reading the answers you have been given several times already here by posters like thomas powers rather than ignoring them and asking the same thing again

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

On 5/25/2017 at 0:31 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Please look up the MANY posts on how stupid that mixture is and how almost criminal it is to suggest it to people that are on this site. It is nearly the posterchild for how bad the information random videos can  have on the net.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

It was at an IBA conference that I got my second class on pattern welding that really improved my skills.  One of the featured demonstrators had a personal emergency and so Billy Merritt stepped up and did a pattern welding demo.  Now as most of the IBA had seen Billy many times there was only a handful of us standing around the forge (within touching distance!) getting a closeup class from a master pattern welder.  I drove from Columbus Ohio and was extremely happy I had done so.  Of course that was over 25 years ago, I expect the conference is even bigger now!

Good time to start saving for Quad-State too, it's in Late September in Troy Ohio, (just north of Dayton), and it's the biggest smithing wingding held annually in the USA.  You can camp at the county fairgrounds to hold costs down and meet other smiths; but be sure to check your shocks and springs before going. (The first time the anvil collector from NM went he bought 30 anvils and a larger trailer to haul them home---and didn't exhaust the supply by a long shot. Last time I went I saw several people with over 15 anvils on their sales trailers and a lot more onesies and twosies!)

 

On 5/25/2017 at 0:37 PM, JHCC said:

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

This particular bit of idiocy has been presented, criticized, explained, and dismissed so many times here on IFI that I've long since lost count. If you had bothered to read over the solid fuel forge section of the forum (like we recommended), you would know that.

Go back and read. 

The members of IFI are more than happy to help in whatever way we can, but YOU have to show us that you're willing to learn. Following the most important piece of advice we've given you will show that more clearly than anything else.

Go back and read.

Go back.

Read.

 

On 5/30/2017 at 0:15 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Are you talking about plaster of paris and sand for the floor of your forge?  If so what was unclear about: "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!"  and "ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!" ?

It will work for a very short time and start to degrade immediately upon heating to forging temps.  Clay based kittylitter and wood ashes will work better and have a longer use life.

I strongly suggest you read the information on building a Tim Lively washtub forge and how to do the adobe for the firepot.

 

On 5/31/2017 at 0:58 PM, Daswulf said:

I just took a quick look online,  and from Just a quick glance, cheap clay based cat litter is cheaper then plaster of Paris.  So why, in trying to save money, use plaster of Paris instead of clay based cat litter as Thomas had suggested? When as he said, clay will last longer.... 

 

On 5/31/2017 at 1:42 PM, the iron dwarf said:

depends on how hot you want your forge to get for how long it lasts, keep the temp down below the boiling point of water and it will last a while, get it to forging temp and it may last seconds or at best minutes.

IF you know how to research then why use what is well known as the worst mix, plaster of paris will be a hydrate which means it bonds to water, get it hot and the bonds break, very hot and it can be explosively, sand can be used as a flux for forge welding as it will liquefy at that sort of temp and neither of them insulate so the casing of your forge will be red before it gets to welding temp, you will also be using 10 times as much gas as you need IF it can get to welding temp without your burner melting / catching fire

 

1 hour ago, old school blacksmith said:

guys HOW WAS I SUPPOSE to know it is one of the worst mixtures that I could use!!!...... look; I'm just in need of a mixture that is cheap and it can hold up to forge temps for a few good go around(s). so here's the question that I'm actually asking; what mixture could.... dang got to go back to work i'll type the rest of it in a few hrs

I am beginning to think he has a comprehension problem...

[Frosty]

I think it's another example of what Dunning and Kruger were talking about. Anything not meeting preconceived notions just doesn't count. Just saying something makes it so. Having a tool conveys the skills to use it. On and on. I'm sure our parents could go on about what we were like as teenagers. 

Personally I have more important things to do than repeat the obvious to children. Hey, that's it! This is the "why" game as played on social media.

I leave it to you Noschoolblacksmith, let us know how it works out for you.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Dave51B]

 OSB, I will be at Tipton IBA conference tomorrow ....5-3-17.... Drive the few miles north and look me up. I will be the tall guy with whiskers and the black IBA hat. Sounds like you have some preconceived notions that need addressing. I look forward to meeting ya.....                   Life is Good                   Dave  

[old school blacksmith]

Dave sorry man but I can't make it.... it's due to work; part time. so I'm going to say this for you..... "XXX"  also the IBA meeting in the fair grounds is in June?? y or n my memory is somewhat bad.

for the "OTHER" guys...... listen up I'm not blocking you or riding your advice off, etc.! it's just that... hold on before I go on if you heard the phrase '' don't go beat up a dead chicken'' or something like that? alright now I can go on; well I thing I may be doing that to you guys. look I know ....(sigh) that there is extremely raw info on this website and you guys are trying help me to the best you can; I'm sorry that I'm acting like a xxxxxxx! to you guys. a this MAY help think that you are a teacher at a school and I'm the student.... worded it in a way a student would be able to under stand. that may help ya'll and me

[Daswulf]

18 minutes ago, old school blacksmith said:

 a this MAY help think that you are a teacher at a school and I'm the student.... worded it in a way a student would be able to under stand. that may help ya'll and me

That post was so hard to read and I read it several times over to Try to understand what you are saying. If you want to be understood in your questions, please write them with a little respect to the reader. Slow down, proof read it, and correct it. Be thorough and specific in your question. Think of what you are saying and ask yourself if it would plainly make sense to the reader. We are not mind readers and cannot fill in the details you don't mention for you. 

Do you understand the answer to your earlier question yet? 

[Frosty]

Good grief OSB that looks like you're deliberately writing BAD script for an episode of the Beverly Hillbillies! I don't know Das it's starting to look like he's making fun of us by doing the opposite of what we suggest. I didn't think his English could get worse but I'm wrong again.

OSB. If you're going to mock us for attempting to help you just tell us to get lost and learn the craft on your own. Nobody's holding a gun on you, don't take our suggestions, just don't tell us we're wrong. If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have such beginner basic problems.

I'll leave you be now. Pull your head out and I'll share 45+ years of experience with you. CAN you learn from other people's mistakes?

[SLAG]

Frosty & Daswulf,

You cannot teach a man anything, who knows everything.

SLAG.

[Buzzkill]

Nor can you reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into.

[John in Oly, WA]

There's just no use continuing to put more effort into this. Two FULL weeks and he hasn't heard one thing anyone here has said. It's obvious he can't, or WON'T read, or research either - and, the only thing I'll address to you OP is - watching YouTube videos is NOT research.

And I thought I wasn't an old curmudgeon, but GEEZ! anyway

He was wanting to make an oil fired forge, right? an induction heater? LOL

[JHCC]

It's been fun, though, hasn't it? We haven't had a really stubborn newbie in AGES!

[Glenn]

Old school blacksmith, Please put the safety suggestions are at the top of your research list.  

Next take time to do a bit of research on the suggested topics and bring back and post the results of your study. 

[Frosty]

You don't have to be Old to be a curmudgeon John, look at LBS, Mark's turning out to be a fine curmudgeon and he's almost(?) 16.

My concern with this thread falls into the category of Einstein's definition of insanity. We keep telling him the same thing, are we expecting a different result? Doesn't our  participation bring our sanity into question?

Seriously, there's a Judge Judy rerun on, why on Earth am I spending any time on this?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Huh. And all I'm asking is for him to repeated his question over and over more clearly....

I hope he follows advice and does some research on the advice given to him already, but.... 

[Tubalcain2]

On 6/1/2017 at 0:39 PM, Daswulf said:

Me thinks he is missing some posts that answered his question. Could be wrong. I'll wait. 

Proper Shakespearean would be methinks. Just 1 word. Am I right, John?

 

2 hours ago, JHCC said:

It's been fun, though, hasn't it? We haven't had a really stubborn newbie in AGES!

No kiddin. i was gettin bored.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Next thing ya know his same question will show up in the Solid Fuel Forges forum...

[John in Oly, WA]

Frosty, you're right - on two points: age/curmudgeonliness; and sanity. Mark is developing into a fine curmudgeon at quite a young age, and blacksmith, maybe I am too - at least the curmudgeonly part, but not at such the young age. I guess curmudgeonliness can develop at a wide range of ages.

I was beginning to think the OP was a bit mentally challenged, but then you brought up an interesting point that threatened to turn it 180 degrees - everyone giving the same answer expecting a different response. But isn't the definition of insanity asking the same question over and over expecting a different answer, yet everyone was giving the same answer expecting a different question/response. So would that be the reverse of insanity? or ...well...sanity?! Ah, there, I feel better - I twisted it around enough to conclude that everyone here is perfectly sane and normal. And it is the OP again in question. Ah, rationality is a wonderful thing. Or is that rationalizing? LOL

[Anachronist58]

I think that the best direct response is, "You may incorporate some of your bricks into a JABOD. Here is the link:

There are no further Questions to ask. When you have built it, report your progress."

Fellows, feel free to go watch TV.

Robert Taylor

[ThomasPowers]

I don't own a TV. I have no problem working with new people; but remember that scene. (I believe was in "Kung Fu"),  when the Master keeps pouring tea in a full cup? There is also a variant where you pour tea onto a cup that is turned upside down.

So OSB, try your strongly held beliefs in as safely a way as possible and if you run into some of the issues we have mentioned think of some of the ways we have suggested to get around them.   Remember 100 hours at the forge and anvil will trump 1000 hours on the internet when it comes to learning to forge!  So go forth and conquer! (And I still want to discuss medieval smithing with you!)

[Glenn]

If OSB wants to become a blacksmith we have and will try to help him succeed. It is now time for him to step up and do his part, to do some research, actually find a blacksmithing group or organization and go to the meetings. They will assist him in any way they can. BUT he will have to be courteous, respectful, and yes even a bit humble, in order to get courtesy and respect in return. 

 

I will leave the thread open in case OSB would like to respond. 

After 75 posts, it is time to move on. 

[Daswulf]

I want to help.  want to help him help himself. Maybe it is time to move on since he will not post a legible question aside from whats been asked and answered over again. How do you get someone who will not listen to listen? sometimes explaining works. sometimes showing. sometimes shaming. sometimes nothing.I hope he will follow your advice.