old school blacksmith Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 hey if you are a blacksmith that has a brick forge or knows some knowledge about brick smithy forge please I need major info. On how I can seal up the bricks that I have for my forge and what is the extremely best thing to do so. Also if you do this for a job mostly and not as a hobby please reply a.s.a.p.! Hobbyist you can answer as well. oh the attachment pic is somewhat what I'm trying to build. so please help me! and it needs to be at least under $55.00! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Did you review the Forges section on the site? Was the information there helpful? The cost of the project is directly related to your ability to scrounge materials. There are several different types of mortar. Choose the one that works for your application. What do you plan on forging? The type smithing you plan on doing will determine the size and shape of the forge. If you add your location to your profile there may be someone close to your location. If you join the local blacksmithing group or organization, you cal learn more in a single day than you can ever imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school blacksmith Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 swordsmithing that's what I'm going to do but like I said I need some way or name of a sealant that can hold it together ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 You may want to use different type bricks and different mortars for different parts of the forge. The heat zone motar would be different from the construction morals. A quick search for refractory mortars Indianapolis IN gave 3,900,000 RESULTS. Indianapolis IN is a large place and you should be able to find a source locally for the motors you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Welcome aboard Old School(?) Blacksmith, glad to have you. You REALLY need to slow your roll, all you'll accomplish being in a rush if making mistakes faster and more permanently. I don't believe you know enough about blacksmithing to know what you need, it's certainly not what you want. Believe me I know. Did you think about what you were saying in your first post? "extremely best?" There's Totally no such thing. You specify you want smiths experienced with what you want to do to reply ASAP? What's the emergency, you aren't going to bleed to death if you don't know how to lay a brick forge are you or maybe Guido is going to break your legs if you don't forge the Don a sword by Wednesday? We'll be more than happy to help you learn the craft but learning it is on you. I don't want to discourage you but you don't know enough to even ask basic questions let alone understand the answers. Spend some time and do some reading. Iforge archives have I don't know how many thousands of pages of posts from folk talking about blacksmithing. The archives are broken up by subject to make navigation easier. The people discussing things here are at all levels in the craft from acknowledged masters to guys like you with no idea other than the desire to make things from hot steel with hammers. Okay I confess I'm only a hobbyist and don't use solid fuel to heat my steel. Please, do some reading, take notes, draw sketches or print out pics and posts you think will be helpful. At least learn the language so you can ask good questions and understand the answers. I could make a couple dozen suggestions for how to build a brick forge with what you have in the picture but you wouldn't understand more than one word in five and none of the context. Honest, we love to help folk, it's why a lot of us are here but you have to have a handle on what you're asking. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Okay, let's take this back a step further -- you posted this in the "Induction Heating, Oil forges, etc" section, but that looks a lot like you're planning on using a solid fuel? Maybe? What fuel DO you plan to use? If you're looking to do charcoal or coal, look up the 55 forge or the JABOD forge in the solid fuel forge sections. Those can be built for practically nothing; my own JABOD cost me about five bucks, but that was only because I had to buy some drywall screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 If charcoal I would commend to your attention the `Tim Lively washtub forge` as an easily and inexpensively built charcoal forge designed for bladesmithing. If you are not a skilled bladesmith you don't need to worry about swords quite yet---sort of like telling us you plan to race in the Indy 500 and you want to buy a race car cheap to learn how to drive in... I spent 4 years near the Castleton Mall in the Indy area; hope to see you at Quad State one year and please look into going to the IBA Conference June 2-4 where there will be a bunch of smiths and blacksmithing equipment for sale; well worth selling plasma to attend! http://www.indianablacksmithing.org/Conferences/2017_Brochure.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school blacksmith Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 I know a very good portion of blacksmithing because I've been doing research and studying the topic. also when I say ''extremely best'' I mean what is the known and best sealant that you guys already used and it held together. that's what I mean also I'm using fireproof bricks for doing this. and I'm not rushed I'm just having trouble finding the right sealant to do so that's all. and the reason my username is old school blacksmith is because I'm doing is 100% old.... medieval style! and thanks for trying to help me out guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Great; I have been studying medieval smithing for over 40 years now; attending academic conferences, I have a library of written sources: primary secondary and tertiary. Visited museums in a half a score of different countries. As well as this I have been working on reproducing medieval material culture for 37 years. Good to have more people interested in it! What are your sources on medieval smithing? What type of Medieval smithing are you planning to do? How many people will you have working in your smithy? Will you be using charcoal or will this be the later middle ages? Will you be using twin single action bellows or the later double lunged bellows? Where are you getting your real wrought iron? Modern steel dates to after the 1850's and while The Real Wrought Iron Company LTD does sell recycled wrought iron it's quite pricy---as does the Old Globe Elevator folks. Will you be making your own blister and shear steels if you decide to make blades? I hope to meet up with you at Quad-State sometime so we can talk about medieval smithing! (However may I point out to you that having read up on smithing for years; but having never smithed, makes you as good of a smith as having read up on racing for years makes you a good race car driver...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Will you be making your own blister and shear steels if you decide to make blades? TP, isn't shear steel a late-16th century process? Wouldn't we call that early modern rather than medieval? (Just curious; you're the expert.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Piling has been known since Roman times and so I was being a bit loose with terminology; Mea Maxima Culpa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Ego te absolvo, in nomine Yellin et Weygers et Francis Whittaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Beware of Geeks bearing Grits in Latin or something like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Is that like Roman Meal hot cereal, Thomas? I loved Roman Meal hot cereal but I haven't seen it in years. Believe it or not it has a cult following online and you can get the recipe. I'm going to make up a batch next time I run low on hot cereal. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 11 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Beware of Geeks bearing Grits in Latin or something like that... It wouldn't have been corn before the Columbian exchange, though. I'm trying to think of some good grain-related jokes in Latin, but the closest I can manage is "cogito ergot sum". That's a pretty rotten joke; I guess it's too early in the morning for rye humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Old School - how long have you been blacksmithing? If you've been forging for some time and long enough to made swords - you will have already known that $55.00 will not get you to far in your choice of hobby as in blacksmithing. A purchase of a known quality steel for a sword can cost you more than $55.00. I'm not saying you cant find some mortar to hold up to high temps for less than $55.00 but why put a dollar amount on something that will produce many more dollars worth of product? - Providing you can make a salable sword for thousands of dollars. As far as the urgency (ASAP response) - If you have never made a sword - the ASAP is of no urgency, hence you will need to forge for many many hours before being able to forge, heat treat, grind and polish a quality sword. With all due respect - Slow down a bit. - If you've been making swords - please show some pics and more info of your backround in forging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Ha that brings back memories; back in the early 80's I spent a year apprenticed to a top American swordmaker and one day we had a fellow wander in who wanted to buy a sword. His top price was the same as the cost of the high alloy steel we were using as it came from the Steel Mill. We told him we could sell him a bar and wrap a bit of duct tape on it for a handle as a gift.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school blacksmith Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 guys my forge isn't even set up and it's going to be a coal one also I'm a extremely newbie at this that's why I'm asking ya'll!! also Thomas Powers you need to cut it down a few notches with the questions man! also I'm 15-21 age range so cut me some slack plz! a.s.a.p. is because I'm tired of running into dead ends on finding items and the dollar range is about how much I can spend because of my savings to get a car! also you guys are really helping me out with my problem and I thank ya'll for doing so!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 After reading what YOU said about yourself and your plans I was hoping to have a great in detail discussion of medieval smithing with you. Perhaps you need to cut down a few notches on how you represent yourself? I'm still willing to discuss medieval smithing---at the drop of a fleck of scale---folks here will tell you; but I need to know where you are coming from. If it's based on Hollywood, video games and fantasy books; well you have a bit to unlearn before going forward. Age is not a problem; I've worked with people half your age and people several times your age. Getting a good handle on materials, methods and processes and the smithies of the period is a good first step and I can tell you that most modern smiths do NOT have any experience working real wrought iron which was the basis of blacksmithing for the first couple of thousand years; pretty much up until the invention of the Bessemer/Kelly process in the 1840's/50's and then the Open Hearth process (and others!) of making steel came along. (Learning more modern smithing can be a help as you explore medieval methods too.) Now luckily almost NO medieval smiths made their own metal. They would buy it from people who did or who traded in it. (The exceptions were places like remote norse farmsteads where there is evidence of smelting and forging of iron combined.) So buying your metal is not ahistorical. You will need to decide if you are going to forge medieval materials in a medieval way to produce medieval style items; or forge modern materials in a medieval way to produce medieval style items; or forge medieval materials in a modern way to produce medieval style items; or forge modern materials in a modern way to produce medieval style items. Think about this a while while thinking about what you want to accomplish. Some of these are much easier than others if you are trying to get a specific item(s). Also remember that as far as swords go *modern* *materials* are much better than Medieval ones! And all of those questions still stand even if most of the answers are "I don't know" or "I haven't researched that" or "could you suggest sources that cover that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 0:04 PM, old school blacksmith said: I know a very good portion of blacksmithing because I've been doing research and studying the topic. also when I say ''extremely best'' I mean what is the known and best sealant that you guys already used and it held together. that's what I mean also I'm using fireproof bricks for doing this. and I'm not rushed I'm just having trouble finding the right sealant to do so that's all. and the reason my username is old school blacksmith is because I'm doing is 100% old.... medieval style! and thanks for trying to help me out guys! 2 hours ago, old school blacksmith said: guys my forge isn't even set up and it's going to be a coal one also I'm a extremely newbie at this that's why I'm asking ya'll!! also Thomas Powers you need to cut it down a few notches with the questions man! also I'm 15-21 age range so cut me some slack plz! a.s.a.p. is because I'm tired of running into dead ends on finding items and the dollar range is about how much I can spend because of my savings to get a car! Even to hobby smiths like me these posts are serious red flags. It's clear you haven't done nearly the research that you need to do before embarking on your journey. Hot steel will not cut you any slack just because you're young, nor will it move easier under your hammer, weld easier, burn up less if you get it too hot, etc. etc. It won't transform itself into a quality sword for you because you are young either. Your age is not a problem or a barrier here. It appears that you want to be spoon fed answers to your questions without putting in the time to find the answers yourself - and you want the answers *now*. We can't make materials cheaper for you, nor can we decide your priorities for you. If saving for a car is more important than proper smithing equipment and good steel that's your choice. Welcome to real life where we don't have enough time or money to do all the things we'd like to do. As was already mentioned, if you are planning on swordsmithing, you'll probably spend about $55 on *just* good steel to make one sword. If you've never even touched hammer to glowing steel before, then multiply that by at least 20 times because that's likely to be about how many failures or substandard blades you'll make before ending up with one even approaching a usable quality blade. None of this is said to discourage you. Your enthusiasm is clear and is definitely needed to pursue this craft, but a lot of us started more or less the way you are and learned the hard way that you simply can't turn out quality blades by watching some videos, reading a couple books, and a few hours at the forge. All 3 of those things are good to help you on your way, but the road to swordsmithing is more of a marathon than a sprint. At this point I don't think you have enough knowledge about the craft to tell which videos or books are worth your time and which are nothing more than wastes of time. We do have a section on the forum where people have provided links to good smithing videos, and we also have a book review section that would be worth checking out if you are serious about continuing down this road. Several people have rather gently tried to guide you to a reasonable approach to your stated goals, but at this point you don't even know what you don't know well enough to ask good questions or properly understand the responses. Many of the answers to questions are relative to exactly what you want to do and how you want to do it. Please take the time to read through the sections of the forum that are related to your interests. That will take hours to days, not minutes - but it is time well spent. If you continue to try to boldly go where you are unprepared to go you may find people here much less helpful. No one wants to see you hurt yourself or others in your enthusiasm to jump in too deep too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school blacksmith Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 Buzz kill I understand what you are saying to me but my words get mixed up when I try to type or write. due to me having A.D.D. but I'm only in need of info on items that are good that's with in $55 and I have done a lot of research on Blacksmithing. even if I haven't already made my forge also from your words and typing I can tell that you are a pro even if you are a hobbiest ! That's why I signed up for this site! So I can get more information from people who already did this type of stuff so I f.... Up! and get hurt and I meant that I'm saving for a car and the range of cash is what I have after I put some cash up for a car! Like I said A.D.D.! Also I'm trying to approach this slowly it's just some items I can't find and it's kinda stressing me out badly! But I'm not joking about me trying to get the info on what to do and items from people who already did this! Also it gives me an idea of some what to do with my forge. and I'm a country boy so you can say that it may be second nature to me but having no clue on how to do it! So please try to see where I'm coming from with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 If you only have $55 to get started then you were already given the best advice you can get. Look at this thread: https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/44842-just-a-box-of-dirt-or-a-simple-side-blast-forge/ In simplest terms a forge is a hole in the ground with an air source. We elevate that hole for convenience. You have a nice pile of bricks, but just because you have something doesn't mean you have to make a forge out of it - at least not yet. A brick forge is usually a rather permanent object. Even if you want to build that some day you'll be better off getting started now hammering on hot steel with something cheap and simple. When it comes time to build that brick forge you'll have a much better idea of what your wants and needs are. You can easily get started under for under $55 if you don't have tunnel vision. You need a hot fire, a hammer, and something solid to put the hot steel on when you hit it. If you insist on a brick forge, a London pattern anvil, and starting out by forging swords it's not very likely you can get started for $55 or less. Don't focus on what you see as the problem. Define what it is that you want to *do* not what you want to *have*. That way you can consider other possibilities that will take you to where you want to go, even though they may be significantly different than your original plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 12 hours ago, JHCC said: It wouldn't have been corn before the Columbian exchange, though. I'm trying to think of some good grain-related jokes in Latin, but the closest I can manage is "cogito ergot sum". That's a pretty rotten joke; I guess it's too early in the morning for rye humor. You sure went farina way to mold that one didn't you? This is the sort of cultured topic witch could stake out a Long Slow Discussion with burning consequences. If you mean what I see. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Just now, Frosty said: You sure went farina way to mold that one didn't you? This is the sort of cultured topic witch could stake out a Long Slow Discussion with burning consequences. If you mean what I see. Frosty The Lucky. It's a weighty subject. More weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 OSB, look up the IBA (Indiana Blacksmithing Association) website. Once there you will find the information for the 37th Annual Conference in Tipton, In. at the 4-H fairgrounds. It is on June 2nd, 3rd and 4th. It will be well worth your time to drive the few miles up there. Life is Good Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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