General help on a brick forge/ needing info

[jeremy k]

When your all done, let the ash fall out the ash dump. Don't over think it.

[Frosty]

Rinse it off with a hose. Pat dry with a soft silk hankie if you're sufficiently OCD. KISS rules.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

So first off we love welding kids, and to most of us your a kid. Tanatius joe and little blacksmith are exelent examples of young guys making incredible advancements. 

Second, their is a difference between I know a lot from reading and YouTube and acualy finding out what hot steel thinks of your "knowledge" 

third we will recomend to you to start with a small general use forge, Vikings, romans, Iron Age Gauls, etc all forged swords in forges that heated about 6" at a time to forging temp. You only need a long forge to heattreat a long blade.

so here we go, 

 

The bricks will be fine just as a loose pile, untile you figure out what you are doing and how a forge works. Clay rich mud has been used as mortar for milinia, and its cheep, so that's were I would start, I would also find a way to keep my forge dry, brick absorbs water, water turns to steel, wet hot bricks explode. We call this spalding, but it's no diferent from shrapnel from a grenade going off two feet from your face.

i have done a lot of experiments in building cheep sidblast forges for charcoal, and I commend you for not starting with a brake drum. You would have spent your whole budget on 2" pipe fittings. 

I personaly don't like the noise of hair driers. Electric bed pumps or vacuumed cleaners, and for charcoal the make way more air than you need, I suggest the lowly double action bed pump.

[Charles R. Stevens]

$10 at a sporting goods place neir you, combine it with a schedual 40 black pipe nipple about 8" long or so and we are off to the races. I like this particular one because it's larger than most, and the air outlet is on the base not the handle. It works like an Asian  box bellows. 

So let's look at the particulars, you want at least 2" of brick under the fire to keep the bench or table you set up on from burning, and at my age a ground forge is hard on ines knees. Chose a table that will put the heart of the fire at about anvils hight. So about 2'. Lay a layer of bricks down to make at least a pan 18" square, up to a 30" square, now lay out a 8" square for the fire, you want the tuyere ( the pipe) at least Ann inch off the bottom and flush with one side, mud works just fine to fill in around it. Now lay up more brick to have 3" above the tuyer. This is the center of the fire were you want the steel for most work. On at lest one side stack brick as a wall at least 4" tall, best if you do both sides. This holds the fuel in a pile and conserves fuel. For a more effecent fire for knives and most of the work a young guy will do, the 8x8 whole can be made 4x8 and the walls be 4" apart. Saves fuel and charcoal being low density burns fast. 

This gives you the basic idea. By the way a brick with 3/8 of mud mortar takes up 2"x4"x8" so walla. Later on you can build your sword forge by making a longer trench with 2-3 tuyere and burn a bushel basket of fuel at a time, but you only do that to heat the sword to quench it. You will still forge it in the small effecent forge, because repeatedly heating the whole blade length will degrade the steel. 

Oh and FWI, many of us have ADD (and worse) we manage it. Medication is good to cut the edge and give you breathing space to learn the tools you need to manage it. I personaly won't take that as an excuse, I will expect you to be responsible for managing it. Welcome to the club little brother. 

[ThomasPowers]

Nice forge!   a "Y1K" forge lifted up to a convenient height and even has a bench for the bellows thrall to sit on!

[Charles R. Stevens]

We keep trying to reinvent the wheel, TP. As you well know the historical record provides so many elegantly simple solutions to problems. High tech often is expensive, wasteful of resources and more polluting than tried and true tech. I was surprised to find evidence of the use of heavy copper tuyere in direct process blumidary smelters of the Iron Age. Y'all involved in experimental archioliy rock 

[old school blacksmith]

thanks guys and I don't live near a place that sells clay mud exp. a hardware store and the type of forge I'm making is a proto- type one so thanks about the exp. bricks tip. I can I use regular big rocks in a creek bed for my forge hypthical (may miss-spelled that) I mean, just wondering.

[JHCC]

24 minutes ago, old school blacksmith said:

I don't live near a place that sells clay mud

What's the dirt like under your feet?

[Daswulf]

No one sells cheap kitty litter in your area? 

[ThomasPowers]

It was in Indiana during 1968-1972 when I was on a boy scout campout and someone used creek rocks for a fire circle.  They got hot and one exploded burning a hole in my brand new air mattress before it had ever been used a single time. I cannot recommend it even if nobody lost an eye that time!

[Charles R. Stevens]

What kind of dirt is under your feet?! the natives made clay pots and the settlers made bricks out of native clay. Road cuts and riverbanks generally expose it, and reject sand from the local gravel pit is usualy fat enugh to make Adobe. You need to stop over thinking this. The Iron Age smith didn't have a wall mart. 

Think little brother! I know as a product of our foundering education system that may be a painful and frightening thing, but I have confidence in you!

Grumbles...

.. buy the kid books, and buy the kid books and what dose he do?! Eats the xxxx covers! Lol

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

5 hours ago, Daswulf said:

No one sells cheap kitty litter in your area? 

 

5 hours ago, old school blacksmith said:

thanks guys and I don't live near a place that sells clay mud exp. a hardware store and the type of forge I'm making is a proto- type one so thanks about the exp. bricks tip. I can I use regular big rocks in a creek bed for my forge hypthical (may miss-spelled that) I mean, just wondering.

Yep, unscented cheap kitty litter mixed with a little water and you have bentonite clay.

[Daswulf]

OSB, we have pointed out time and again that there are no excuses or hold backs if you Want to start forging. If you have roadblocks then you are making them. I can understand wanting something fancy but it is as easy as a digging a hole in the dirt adding a fire in it and giving it some air. Nothing is more old school. Why reinvent the wheel and hold your self back from Actual forging experience waiting to make something more difficult. I wish I had the knowledge you have been given many years before I finally did start forging. I'd have been way further ahead. 

 

[old school blacksmith]

a guys I've realized that I may have already asked the last question (creek rocks) so sob on me. sorry ya'll and Daswulf I know you are giving good.. no, great info also that goes to all the other guys as well!! so I know about bricks expl. and clay dirt due to ya'll... and I'm not holding out on forging it's just I'm in a pickle right now with my folks so I can't start as I expected to. I'm sorry if I xxxxxx ya'll off!! also I do have plans that can be set in place for my forge but it's folks that are stopping me so every thing is in place to start but i'm missing a few things for me to start, I have it covered though.

[ThomasPowers]

So what do you need to do to convince your parents your are ready for forging?   May I suggest attending meetings of the local affiliate; preferably with a parent along---doesn't matter which.  They can learn that smithing is not such a crazy thing as they thought.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I think we have all let our alligator mouths over load our humming bird butts before and got our selves in hauk with the parental type units. Own it, appoligizre and face the consequences with some grace. that's what we call acting like an adult. Your at that age were we all want the privlages of adult hood wile having the responsibilities of a child. Unfortunantly adult hood is more about responsibility and consequences than privileges. 

And give el padre e la madre some slack, remember they are responsible for raising a human being instead of a smart, smart upright walking ape... 

[Daswulf]

Your not ticking us off, not that I can tell and not me. We want to to succeed and not fall into the old " I can't do this because I don't have that" thing. Many of us have been there. I'm guilty. But once you jump in with both feet you start learning and start thinking outside of the box. It'll go from " I don't have this" to " I can make that or figure something out to work". 

We can only offer helpful advice, it's up to you and your determination to make it work for you. Where there is a will there is a way. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Or in Daswulf and I's case. Rabid squirrels... ;-) once you learn to wrangle those little buggers you'll laugh at ADD ! 

[ThomasPowers]

The "yes---but" syndrome;  "I wanna forge but I can't afford to!" So we explain how to build a forge for free or cheap. "yes---but I can't find coal!" So we explain how to use/make charcoal; or where to find coal; or how to build a propane forge. "Yes---but I don't have tongs!" So we explain how to forge without tongs and how to make a set that way. "Yes---but I can't find steel! So we explain how to find steel to use. "Yes---but...." And so curmudgeons are made.

For some folks I have learned to just answer the first "Yes---but" with "yes tis indeed a terrible shame it is..." Much better use of time and energy answering questions from people who take your answers and run with it like a fire following a gasoline leak!

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

I don't know what I did but I can't get the underline to go away!

It happens Charles. Highlight the whole post, the "underline" button will be dark, click it and your post will be plain text again. When things like that happen just highlight the offending text and click the dark button.

Be quick though edit time is running!

Frosty The Lucky.

[old school blacksmith]

a guys if I remember right ya'll said that the blacksmith makes the tools ya?? well tongs are unknown to me well more exact blacksmithing ones. to your guys knowledge would their be vids on making them or no?? because I need to see someone make them and so I know how to make a pair!!

[Daswulf]

there are many videos on YouTube on making tongs. I learned from Technicus Joes tutorial videos. There are other good ones as well. A simple search should bring up a ton of videos. 

[JHCC]

For the absolute beginner with practically no tools or experience, it's hard to think of anything more basic than Denis Frechette's "folded-over" tongs.

Mod Note: Link removed due to request for money.

[Frosty]

Not bad, a little more than twist tongs but well within beginner's skill levels. I like how he demos everything without "proper" tools, everything he did can be done on a big rock if that's what you have. 

I just wish people would stop including the speeded up footage, more than a couple seconds is just annoying it doesn't actually show anything useful. Again that's just me, I want meat, not fluff in a how to video.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael Cochran]

 

I just wish people would stop including the speeded up footage, more than a couple seconds is just annoying it doesn't actually show anything useful. Again that's just me, I want meat, not fluff in a how to video.

Frosty The Lucky.

I have to agree. The fast and slow motion in video is overused these days. I'd rather see the whole process or enough to see what's going on in a step and then cut the camera off until it's closer to finished if need be. The slow motion is good for some things but again I think it's over used.