JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[jlpservicesinc]

Well after some suggestions and support in a can do attitude from Old Crew, the back wall is up.  It was the most insane thing I have seen in a long time and if I wasn't super sure in the information that it would work I would have been stuck with starting over or splitting it in half or such. 

Thanks @Old Crew it worked but you would not believe the looks on the guys faces when I lifted it and it bowed in the middle and pulled at the sides.  One of the guys yelled at me to stop it but It was a brazen move to continue but had faith in your words.  and taa dah.  there it is. 

Putting it together was/is one of the hokiest, insert swear here a few times, crazily put together things I have ever seen.  The parts are barely marked from left to right. The information for the center support over the door was nearly missing. (it can only go in 1 way) but there is no mention of it. The side EC uprights and the ones on the sides of the doors can only go in 1 way and yes they are not marked this end up or anything.  Yes, I am complaining for sure..   it was not only a learning process but a painful one emotionally. 

It's up and over now and the little funky stuff which was a huge time sucker taking it apart, putting it back together only to find something else was off. Etc, etc.  Today was a full 10hour day and still no purlins on the roof top.  I didn't have it in me to climb the ladders with the purlin on my shoulder and everyone was exhausted.  So I sent all the other guys home (2 guys were all day) 1 guy came to assist whos a builder of fine homes  (Lull owner) and he was instrumental in it coming together as the measurements were off and he found it. (super smart guy). 

I also had the foundation guy over to talk with him about the spacing on the foundation and he thinks i should just leave the spacers CL041 as is and just shim the foundation for the offset or lean of the base plate. 

All in all it was a great day to have this part of the journey finished. 

[jlpservicesinc]

One of me putting the bolts in the corner at the eave strut. 

[JHCC]

Strutting your stuff!

Looking good. Hope to see more soon. 

[jlpservicesinc]

chuckle, chuckle..    Rain all day tomorrow.  

[Old Crew]

Looking good

As you climbed the ladder to bolt up the eve strut I bet you were glad to have assembled the endwall at waist height . 

[Old Crew]

Jennifer

I posted that comment before having read your post. I am sure that it felt sketchy picking it up and thank you for trusting me and not backing down.  I am a firm believer in doing as much work at or as close to ground level as possible. I have picked up 100 foot wide end walls with a 24 foot spreader bar and a forklift and they are floppy sketchy limp things until you start getting vertical.

I typically install all columns first then all the eve struts and if possible build the roof on the ground also like this picture

We set several roof frames like this in Wallkill NY  in 2017

Jennifer Im proud of your determination and drive and even the willingness to listen to strange guys from texas 

[Old Crew]

Here is is a big one I helped build in South Carolina in 2012 . Roof system built on ground two bay is 50' by 225' and 3 bay is 75' by 225 ' .  It had the same style of insulation system as your building and we were able to install all of the banding on the ground. 

[Frosty]

Jennifer: I suppose by now you know how lucky you are Old Crew is on your side in this! I'd have to sit down with those prints for quite a while to figure out what the draftsman was thinking. I've been reading and drawing prints since high school and those made me dizzy.

Are you lifting the roof two arches at a time, Old Crew? I like it, would've been nice to do with my shop but . . . <sigh> The flex and floppy doesn't hurt so long as you don't bounce it. If a wall takes a little wow, that's what come alongs are for.  I assembled the arches on the slab, lifted them with the high lift and bolted the posts down. My helper was just barely. A neighbor came to my rescue, he and I even had a little chalk talk before we fired up the lift so there were no questions what a gesture meant. It's so nice working with a pro. 

The company I bought my shop from is the erector and orders from the manufacturers to their specifications. They WILL sell kits but make their money putting them up. They're the largest in the area because they get materials at bulk prices and they are RIGHT or the manufacturer eats mistakes. Their blue prints actually qualify as such even being black on white. Heck the ink doesn't even run if they get wet. Everything has a proper terminology and it's listed in a legend. 

The worst issue I had was one post that was warped by the guy offloading it on a bolder and piling the other members on it. <grrrrrrr> I spent half a day straightening it but signed away rights to back charge minor stuff. Part of the price of not having the pros erect it, no complaints.

Sorry for the side track Jennifer but your build brings back a lot of memories and I'm more than glad you have professional help. When you say "hokey" my mind starts listing things I see. Photos stink for getting a good handle on things like this, 'll take good drawings or even sketches over color glossies any day. 

I'm amazed and proud you're pulling this off and maintaining your sanity. That is going to be one AWESOME shop!

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

thanks David,  Your guidance has been much appreciated.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.  If you are ever out my way a lesson is yours for sure. 

  From our conversations and from seeing some of your other work I had faith in what you told me.    I certainly did not Just go.. Oh, so and so told me this.. Lets do it blindly. 

I did risk assessment based on what I know, what you told me, and then what I have read base on the material at hand.    Your information certainly sealed the deal and made for a much better outcome. Easier too, as doing the work on a ladder would have been brutal, It would have looked like a historic street corner at the hey day of telephone and telegraph service in NY. 

Your initial idea of building on the ground and lifting it would have made for a smoother transition from flat to upright as the amount of cupping was amazing. Having the extra support in the middle would have been nicer.  Not sure if you noticed in the photo, but we clamped on some 2X4's on the bottom for the CLs and door opening to hold in place.  When I started lifting it it shrunk in width so by the time we got to the 5/8 up point there was only the ends still on the wall.  that was when the guy yelled at me to stop.  I just kept on going and then it went upright. 

Having it at waist height was a wonderful idea from one of the guys Jimmy.  having some sort of support under the base line would have worked too. 

I can not fathom what getting something like what you did setup and implemented.  The crew you worked with must have been top notch to have so much going on and everyone pulling their weight. 

Again, thanks for reaching out, sharing your knowledge and experience and helping so much with my questions.  Its been a lifeline.. thanks

[jlpservicesinc]

Frosty , No problem at all.  All information is good information and your build was most excellent.

its Moving along at a decent pace so far.  I think it's 8 days today since building arrived. November 15th arrival and unloading of building.  had 2.5 days of heavy rain on top of my normal farrier work.  So all in all I think it's coming along nicely. Never fast enough for me though.  

As a side note. Frosty did bring up some great points about safety.  So, now is probably the time to address some of it.  

I take another persons safety as top priority and have been a scuba diving Teacher/ instructor, a rock climbing instructor, a Ninjutsu teacher, A white water rescue instructor, etc, etc.  Most of these jobs one has to be a really good assessor of activities and dangers taking the whole groups ages, fitness, mental sharpness. thinking ability under pressure. etc, etc. and make it so the activity is both safe and fun.   

While working on a building I suppose it can be fun. I'm an arrival person vs journey.  We all have either or. 

My own back ground involves many activities doing steel girder work as well as many other fun activities like Free style Solo rock climbing and well as training in Ninjutsu since I was 8.  I do what others might consider to be the dangerous stuff, but for myself it's just everyday living.   To do all of those things one has to have a very good understanding of the dangers at hand. (risk assessment). Of course there is always an accident ready to happen no matter how much training or prepared you are.  Things simply happen. IE accidents. 

Anyhow, my point being that I don't endorse or encourage anybody else to take on a project like this, nor to hang on the end of a semi free rafter end to tie in an eave strut. 

There is a professional workmens basket for the LULL which helper use and I use the ladder as well as ropes and such. 

There it is. Others safety above all else. 

[ThomasPowers]

The first part of my shop we hired a builder to do it all but the dirt work; I helped on that.  My shop is welded and built in place and I told the builder I was fine with using stuff that was left over from other projects. I was just trying to get max space for minimum money.  He did a beautiful job. I notice the trusses were trimmed to fit and welded back up and the two roll up doors were NOS; someone had ordered them and never picked them up and so they sat at the supplier's for 10 years in their box. What it meant to me was I got heavier gauge steel and framing for a cheaper price than new stuff.

Now the Second part of my shop I did myself with string, Plumb bob, level and measuring tape.  Very much in the Son of Neo-Rural Farm Vernacular style including 3 different shades of blue pro-panel + the used roll up door blue.  Built it the blacksmithing way---way too heavy!  4 telephone poles set 5' deep in the dirt with concrete poured around them and the outer sides straight and plumb creating two bents when including the original shop. Archaic bolted together trusses.  I ran pressure treated from pole to pole to create the boxes to fill with arroyo sand/gravel for the floor. Bolted a steel beam onto the front to use as a header in case I can ever get my rolling chain hoist installed.  A lot of drilling 1/2" holes in 1/2" steel plates 10' off the ground using my cole drill as no electricity. Luckily I had been buying telephone pole hardware at the scrapyard as I found it so plenty of eyebolts sized for such poles around. It mostly keeps the rain out save for the open gables.  Nice to work in when it's hot.

3rd part still in planning/scrounging will be a carport 20'x20' +/-

Hope this makes you feel better about your BEAUTIFUL NEW SHOP! (And next winter when you are snug in your BEAUTIFUL NEW SHOP; you can gloat!)

[SLAG]

J.L.P. Services inc. ,

Thank you for posting the circa. 1905 picture of the city. (New York city? ).

Gone are the good old days?

All that wiring could be put to good use hanging up peoples' laundry to dry.

We would not waste energy using electric dryers.

SLAG.

[Frosty]

I'm thinking there were a couple up sides to the above ground power, phone, telegraph, etc. wires in old time NYC. A lineman would be making really good money and I'll bet there wouldn't be ANY base jumpers throwing themselves off skyscrapers.

I wonder how many wires the internet would add? We have optic fiber to the local phone box even here and get up to 50 mbs of bandwidth. I suppose they could've mounted lasers on top of the poles eh?

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Thomas, If I were in a warm climate I'd have done a pole barn as well.   I had originally looked at doing something like a 40X60 pole barn. After looking at rafters, metal sizing, wood framing,  site prep.  there wasn't much difference in cost between the steel building and the pole barn..  Where the costs were the main problem was the site work, steel for the foundation, and insulation.  3500 2014 vs 9+ in 2019 with R30 roof, 25 walls.  I wanted this to be fully insulated and be able to heat it reasonably.  One thing that I wanted to avoid was the risk of fire hazard.  This is one of the main things that won me over once I looked at the cost between the 2.  

Anyhow the building was probably one of the most reasonable pricing points out of all of it.  FYI the site work was more than the building. 

With that said I figured out a way to increase production even working by myself.   I put vise grips and C clamps on the sides and brought up all the purlins and slid them down till they hit the vise grips. I then fastened them on the end wall and moved over to the steel girder which is easy to walk on. it took about 1.5hrs to setup the vise grips, sort metal and get the metal up. then 2 hours to get the end wall aligned and bolts in.  I only have 2 or 3 more on that side to fasten to the main structure and then will move to the close side.  

I have a feeling tomorrow I will have the metal framing aspect of the building done or pretty close.   there is some custom work I need to do to the front shed dormer but this was because of a design change.  The door is a full 12ft wide vs 11'4"

I also go and see about getting a manlift so putting in the insulation will go quickly.  If all goes well. the building will be whole by next week or there abouts. 

the thought of this project being done and out of the way is exciting. 

I love seeing the amount of free stock piled metal getting smaller and smaller. 

[jlpservicesinc]

My buddy Steve took one of me when I was adding the end purlin.  I'm using my knees to push it back up the slope and pulling them together to get a bolt in. 

 

[Old Crew]

That is how i would look if I was doing it to. Except no coveralls because I don't live where it so stinking cold . The  vise grips were a good plan. You took one of our conversations about good buildings verse more difficult and came up with your solution ! I am proud of your drive and problem solving ability. 

[ThomasPowers]

Christmas Present to yourself?   My pole barn has little wood in it: 4 telephone poles and the pressure treated floor boards around the outside and filled with sand/clay/gravel.  All the rest is steel save for 2 fiberglass panels for light.

As a scrounged rural building. the cost was minimal. the two trusses were US$300 and I bought new purlins and SDST screws and $75 for the roll up door, Less than $100 for scrap metal like the steel header and the telephone pole eyebolts.  Not nearly as pretty or "compliant" as yours; but should see me till the dirt nap.

[CrazyGoatLady]

Heck yeah, Thomas. We were fortunate when we moved here that there was a shop already here. It's not the greatest thing because as far as I know, it's probably been 40 and 50 years old and a bit run down. The last tenants didn't take care of things very well. Lots of trash had to be hauled off and in general, the whole property was in bad shape. The owner was just going to have it demolished. We fixed a lot of things including the roof. One of the bathrooms, the toilet was sitting in the bathtub and no floor in it... Anyway, lots of work and we have made it a home. The shop is a great thing to have. Whenever we get our own piece of property, a shop will be priority unless we manage to find something with one already existing. 

[jlpservicesinc]

did not get as far as hoped, but got as far as about expected.   I have some  wonderful people helping me.  I love them all.. 

3 of the purlins on the front section had to be exchanged out for the correct numbered ones.  3 P 5 were installed but they are supposed to be P1's.  So had to redo part of the job all ready done. 

The instruction say to square the center section,  and  tension the rods before all the purlins are installed.  Well, that is just wrong.  You can't do that because the purlins for  the front half and the purlins for the rear half go under the purlins for the center section.  So having to get a 24ft long piece of metal bolted on the end is  tough when you can't see it. 

Anyhow, feeling frustrated tonight.  I'm starting to get a little beat up.  I have bruises everywhere especially on the inside of my thighs and legs.  Having some more intuned help would be a wonderful thing and then I think to myself it's only a few more days.  It's only a few more days. ..  I'm doing the job of 4 people and getting tired. 

[CrazyGoatLady]

You're one tough cookie, Jennifer. I'd advise maybe you should take a day or two to recuperate, but I know that's easy for someone else to say. Much different when something needs to be done. We have more than two people can get done in a timely manner so I know how that goes. I feel guilty sometimes going to the smithy or even looking over IFI because there is not enough time in the day. Anyway, you are doing a stellar job. But please be sure and take care of yourself as well. 

[Les L]

Jennifer, The building is coming along and looking great. Just remember that fatigue leads to mistakes and accidents. I agree with CGL that it may be time to take a break, even if it is just a few hours to sit down and admire what you have accomplished while relaxing and clearing your mind. I want to keep reading about your progress, not any oh-oh's!

[Jasent]

It’s looking great. I would agree taking a bit of a break is very important.  Frustration and exhaustion can cause trouble.   I once put together a large prefabricated metal building.  The directions never seem too be right.  We had to loose and tighten so many bolts just to get things to line up. 

I don’t envy you on this project.  Your doing great

[jlpservicesinc]

Now is the time I do my best work. 

As  long as the rain holds off the rear section of purlins should be completed. 

Have 8 horses to do then building work. Giddy up..:) 

[ThomasPowers]

Don't let the weather drive you to accidents!  Remember that line from the Princess Bride?

Prince Humperdinck: "Tyrone, you know how much I love watching you work. But I’ve got my country’s 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder, and Guilder to frame for it. I’m swamped!"
Count Rugen: "Get some rest. If you haven’t got your health, you haven’t got anything."

You still won't get it closed in with the extra work as you have to do the sides before the roof. (And kneeling on cold roofing trying to use a driver  with or without gloves is not a happy place to be!)

[CrazyGoatLady]

Yee- Haw and cowgirl up! Your can- do attitude is inspiring. We just care about you. Can't have JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center without JLP