Frazer's Corner of the Internet [photo heavy]

[Frosty]

The only hatchet I've ever thrown is my all steel Estwing when I was on a Boyscout camp out, got read the riot act and my hatchet taken away. The others throwing their hatchets suffered the same fate and for some time only the scoutmaster brought a hatchet on camping trips. I never stuck it once and I was about average.

One of our club members throws WATL. I asked what if anything was special so he brought his to a meeting. He said the straight edge stuck more often than curved. 

That is the only basis I have for my above opinion.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Thomas.  being involved with Ninjutsu we use so many thrown blades.. Interestingly the primary concern is hitting the target..  Whether it sticks or not is secondary while training..  Funny thing is for some reason they seem to coalesce around the same time.. Accuracy and sticking especially with single pointed items. 

Frosty I would agree with a square blade on an ax or hatchet sticking more easily.  The square leading edge penetrates more deeply and slows the rotation quicker. 

[Anachronist58]

5 hours ago, Frosty said:

The only hatchet I've ever thrown is my all steel Estwing when I was on a Boyscout camp out

Have not checked out Fazer's thread in quite some days and weeks! All of the usual suspects, I see... I am mad about throwing all manner of objects.

Jerry, I have the long version of that Estwing, with the blue molded grip - one of my favorites, behind the Norlund with her proud nose...

"The square leading edge"...

[Frazer]

Regarding the blade profile, good points by all. I can see how having an up swept tip might help if you have a tendency to over rotate slightly and can't (or don't want to) step forward a bit more.

14 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

style they "adhered to" for an official throwing ax

I saw a lot of cleaver style axes with a straight edge, sometimes bearded, and a more or less rectangular blade profile. Still, there were many different shapes being used. Like you say, technique and the individuals comfort with his/her particular axe seem to be the deciding factor.

Those are some mighty fine looking axes Jennifer. Throwing aside and looking at the 3 tomahawks, from an esthetic perspective my favorite is the 3rd; it looks like it's a big'n. From a use perspective I imagine the first would be the best.

You bring up a good point about weight also. When I was there they had 3 different weights for the axe heads at each station. They teach everyone to throw with 2 hands at first, but I found that throwing the lightest axe one handed stuck most often and most accurately for me. I'm not positive what the weight was, but it was in the ballpark of 1.5 lbs.

I probably could have gone a bit lighter with mine and it may have been better if I had. However, with the stock a had on hand (0.75x2" ) going much lighter would have been tricky for me.  I should check the drops section for something a touch lighter if I make more.

One other factor that makes a difference in how well the blade sticks which has not been mentioned is the blade thickness. Generally you want to go as thin as possible while keeping in mind that these axes are going to get thrown around and may take a few bad tumbles while doing to. While I was there the guy was telling me that some of the blades intended for experienced throwers are particularly thin. However, some less experienced people would buy them and bend the blades by throwing way too hard, missing, etc..

Mine isn't thick, but it isn't particularly thin either. If I wanted to go really thin with the blade it would probably be better to do the whole body of the axe in with ~1060 or another other suitable alloy rather than mild steel with a HC steel edge. I'm sure there is a pretty substantial amount of carbon migration from the ~1% carbon bit back into the mild steel blade, but how much and how far is going to be an important unknown variable.

[Frosty]

It's the short blue plastic handled Estwing hatchet with the belt loop in the sheath and it lives happily next to the wood stove. The folks got it for me one Christmas when I was about to move up from Cub to Boy Scouts and start going on scout camp outs. It's nearly 60 and still a sweet hatchet. Even if a puppy chewed the handle a little.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Brady, tomahawk number 3 is actually pretty light..  maybe 1.5lbs if not a little less..  The blade is thin as well. 

I ended up selling it in PA..  I hope he's getting good use out of it. 

It is about 3.75" wide. 

[Frazer]

Finished up a knife for my brothers friend. Stabilized zebrawood scales. The tang is skeletonized to bring the balance just in front of the foremost pin.

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Excellent. 

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Very nice!

[Frosty]

Oooh PRETTY!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Nice looking pattern and scales. 

[Frazer]

Thanks. The pattern is a relatively simple one, but I've gotten consistently interesting results from it. I draw the billet out into a roughly octagonal cross section and do a pretty tight twist. Then I flatten out the twisted bar, cut it into equal lengths and restack so a face with the twist going like this "\" is against a face like "/" and reweld. Then I forge the knife. I like the low layer patterns better than high layer billets. First because I'm lazy and second because you can see the interesting (random) features in the pattern when there are fewer layers. 

As you grind down through the layers you end up with, more or less, a V shaped pattern. The first picture shows the effect I was going for better than the second. It's not an exact science for me and the pattern always turns out a little different.

I like to twist from an octagon rather than a square because I think it reduces the risk of cold shuts when flattening out the twists.

The top and bottom of the first billet don't really get twisted so I always make sure those become the tang which is going to get covered up by the scales; it doesn't have to be very interesting.

[jlpservicesinc]

Very nice explanation as well. 

[Frosty]

I agree, thanks for the explanation of how you develop the pattern.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

Nice pattern. Its similar to the one I use for the few pattern welded knives I've made. I shoot for the herring bone pattern to be centered along the centerline of the blade.  I prefer a higher layer count. Pattern designs are infinite

[M.J.Lampert]

beautiful knife

[Frazer]

Inspired by John Switzer's video, here's a hand towel ring for the NYSDB All-Hands event coming up in 2 weeks (more on that to come in its proper place).

(Let's just agree to ignore the spacing of the bottom left scrolls )

[Frosty]

VERY nice Frazer! I love the organic almost sea critter-like nature. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[lary]

Another work of art. Thanks for posting.

[JHCC]

Nicely done!

[anvil]

nice work! If you don't mention it, most won't see it.

I have a tool I made to continue your champers and continue the vee where your scrolls split, as an alternative to the more rounded way you did that.

[Frazer]

Chamfers I presume? I tried to get in that V with a small set hammer, which worked until I put a few hammer marks deeper and further in than intended. I didn't like the look of that so I took a light and very-rounded-rounding hammer and softened that whole area.

Regardless of whether I am interpreting your comment correctly I would be interested in seeing said tool (or perhaps hearing more about it).

[Frosty]

When I want an angular chamfer in a tight corner I use a flat, chasing punch. I think some call it a planishing punch. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

On 5/11/2022 at 8:45 AM, Frazer said:

Chamfers I presume

Yup, danged puter still cant spell. I'm still looking for one more tool, so I'll post them when I find them. 

Hears "hearing about". I do the vee two ways. My go to is to file them. The other is forged, or better said by using various shaped chisels, both hot and cold. I come from a farrier background and once upon a time Tom Joyce clued me in. " You were a farrier?" "Yes I was". "You must be good with a file!" 

I took that to heart and started exploring files and iron. I went from rasping flat planes and setting two angles on hooves with a rasp to sweeping ever changing curves on the edges of my rosettes, flowers and leaf work. Not a lot, but a little on most. I call it a touch of the file. I really like a subtle flash of brightwork contrasting with a hot oil finish. Your finish above is good. Running my file rather flat and broad, I start with a broad shallow vee. As I raise my file up into the vertical, the "chamfer'd" edge gets smaller and just disappears into the black finish. Sometimes I just kiss the edge and let my file skip from subtle high to high, just knocking off the black. 

As far as chisels, I use them as well, thus my statement in an above post. For starters, just use a common cold chisel with matching bevels and a slightly curved cutting edge. You prolly know this, but for the benefit of others, the slight curve on the cutting edge enables you to walk your chisel and more easily follow a curve. Just put it into the rounded vee at a slight angle at the bottom and work it and walk it from the bottom to as far into the rosette, or whatever, that pleases you, raising the angle of the chisel as you come up and out of the vee.  

I did a job for another smith and he specified the dimensions of his chamfer, length and depth. He also supplied me with a vee chisel to match these dimensions. If you can imagine holding a chisel vertical and giving it one blow, the bottom edge of the edge lined up with the bottom of the chamfer, the top cutting edge of the chisel was at the proper depth and the width of each bevel matched the specified forged bevel on the iron. Pretty slick. I have the sample and when I find the tool, I'll post them if you need. 

Here are some pics of what I'm talking about. Some are filed, some are chisel'd.

pic 1, trellis, the small rosettes are filed, the large are chiseled. On the butterfly the outer center of the wings are "flat" filed and the transition from body to wing are done with a special chisel. 

Notice the little file flourish on the barrel of the hinge. 

The bird and rosette are a mix. and the bottom butterfly hinge is filed. 

Frosty, if you see this, from the other thread, this is the final chalk drawing taken from the similar one done on paper that the client approves. I rarely to never do actual blueprints. All the figures and "stuff" in the drawing, go onto the shop drawing hard copy and are my layout stick. I can, today, use this drawing, or pic and re-lay it out in my shop and match this rat tail hinge,,, if needed. 

By the way, the bird is my tribute to Yellen and Kuhn.

[jlpservicesinc]

Very clean work..  Love it. 

Anvil.  did you have to get a different phone?  I know that in my area they did away with G3 phone support so has to be G4 compatible..