Frazer's Corner of the Internet [photo heavy]

[George N. M.]

Frazer, I have one suggestion:  Put a large version of your touchmark in the center, above the pockets.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

I like George's touch mark idea. A brand maybe? 

Tong clips don't suffer from being magnetic, how about a magnet connected to your apron where you usually reach for a clip? 

Ditto about holding stock and tongs between my legs! My apron is long enough I can kneel on it. Welding is apron time for sure, I don't have to worry about red hot dingle berries rolling off the bench and into my pants.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

If you click on my avatar photo twice, once to get to my profile page and once when you are there, and get to the rectangular, not circular, version you will see that I've got my touch mark on my apron.  I've mentioned this before but it is the Anglo-Saxon rune for G.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Scott NC]

  Very impressive, Frazer.  Decades my foot, that will last a century.... 

[Frazer]

I like the touchmark/branding idea. The spacer on the back does have my initials stamped in it, but that piece is removable. It would be nice to have my mark on the apron itself. I'll have to think about how, where and what. I don't really have a touchmark per se. Sometimes I do my initials, other times the letter z in a sort of script. All with off the shelf stamps.

Frosty, I like the magnet idea, but those things pick up all sorts of metal filings, grinder dust etc.. Especially when I sweep and everything gets stirred around. I doubt it would take long to become a little furball of metal-stuffs wherever I stick it. Still, something to consider.

[Frosty]

I was thinking about how hairy my shop magnets get and thought of a reasonably easy way. Attach a steel plate in a plastic bag to the vest with toggle or maybe a button or ?, put the magnet in a plastic bag and stick it to the plate. When it gets hairy enough to be annoying pull it off and take the plastic bag off. Filings fall off and put it all back.

A few Christmases ago Deb bought me a magnetic, tool holder, bracelet as a stocking stuffer. Neat idea but pretty masochistic to wear in the shop. Can you imagine wearing a really strong magnet wrapped around your wrist in a metal shop? It's easily strong enough to hold my 1/2" flex head ratchet and a couple deep sockets at once. I suppose I could get the filings out of my hide with a wire brush. 

The world is full of good ideas that just won't work. A magnetic, apron clip sticker, may be on the list. 

How about a stamped or branded touch mark as a riveted on badge? You could find the perfect place for it with one of those easy to remove sticky wall adhesives and make it permanent later. Maybe hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Frazer]

I put the magnet on the on the horn of my anvil in a bag for bit... Then I melted the bag accidentally and turned a fuzz ball into a solidified mass of plastic, metal and scale. It was pretty cool... Anyway, what you're describing is a little different.

Magnets and magnetism in general are a nuisance in the shop. Especially the strong ones. Eventually everything is magnetic and you're trying to start a chisel line in the right spot, but the edge is covered with scale flakes so you wipe them off, then the piece starts to cool down and starts sticking to your chisel and you're fighting with this invisible force. Or you're working on a ring or something on the horn and as you move your hands around to work a particular spot, *woop* the magnet decides those are his tongs now.

I'm imagining one of those spiky bracelets the angsty "yutes" wear. Only more... splintery. Perhaps a wrist-mohawk of sorts. Sounds pretty rad.

That was kind of my thought process on the back spacer piece. But it would be cool to have a slightly larger version in front somewhere.

[Frosty]

When I said strong I was talking about one maybe the size of a quarter to hold 2-3 tong clips, not something that would magnetize the whole shop or grab the tongs out of your hands!  AIE YI YI! 

It's easy to demagnetize iron, any AC magnet will do. Stick a magnet to an AC motor sometime.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Deb bought me a magnetic, tool holder, bracelet as a stocking stuffer.

Same here, enhancement for my magnetic personality, when working at the work bench on something, stuff I didn't even know were there would jump to the wrist cuff. Even worse was a pair of mechanic gloves with strong magnets sewn into the back of the hands. One time working on the old Jeep, my hands kept sticking to what ever steel I came close to. Both now reside somewhere on the catch all dishwasher butcher block top.

[Frosty]

Magnetic gloves might be good for finding stuff in cloudy water scuba diving. I could make them work for a stand up comedy routine. 

The magnetic bracelet is laying on a shelf under the TV and hasn't moved other than to look for something else since Deb got it for me. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

I used a magnet in my shoeing apron for years..  Worked well and eventually I put in larger and larger magnets.. I hated having to reach into the shoeing box for nails.. 

I also had a wrist mounted magnet for about 3 years and was strong enough to wear on my right arm even with hammer swinging. 

Eventually the elastic in the strap gave up..  and I stopped using it.  Different shoeing though vs smithing. 

[anvil]

The only time I ever used a magnet as a farrier was once at a public stable where I had a customer. Someone once said how wasteful farriers were at these stables. So I dragged a magnet and came up with an easy 3-4 pounds of #5 cityhead capewell nails. I never wasted my nails, if I dropped one, I picked it up.  

I always used my shoeing box for nails. 

I always keep a magnet on the underside and out of the way on my forge. 

[Frosty]

Farriers who dropped nails didn't get much repeat business or new once word got out. It only takes ONCE having a child step on a nail and a doctors visit to cure a stable owner. It wasn't as sure a way to lose business as being rough on horses but close. We always watched the farrier, my Sister and I had the job of fishing with a magnet if a farrier was careless. We didn't have fishing magnets either I had a horseshoe magnet on a stick but a bar magnet covered more ground faster. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:16 AM, anvil said:

The only time I ever used a magnet as a farrier was once at a public stable where I had a customer. Someone once said how wasteful farriers were at these stables. So I dragged a magnet and came up with an easy 3-4 pounds of #5 cityhead capewell nails. I never wasted my nails, if I dropped one, I picked it up.  

I always used my shoeing box for nails. 

I always keep a magnet on the underside and out of the way on my forge. 

I was super careful with nails..  A new nail on the ground was a cause for flat tire for sure.. 

In all the years I have never seen a used (clinched, used, thrown nail) in a tire..   

A brand new nail though every tire is a magnet.. 

I haven't shod a horse in maybe 3years as I only do barefoot now unless the person absolutely has to have shoes to finish out the riding season.. 

I imagine I have maybe 5lbs of used nails sitting in the bottom of the shoeing box..  

Every shoe reset the used nails when the shoe was cleaned, went in the box, every bent or ill driven nail went in the box as well.  

I prefer an older style shoeing box vs platers box and also over the modern style box. 

When in between horses I could sit on the handle.. 

[Frosty]

I wasn't aiming my experiences or comments at anyone, that was 60 years ago and careless farriers weren't called back. The folks we borded with had a list of farriers who were forbidden on their property. It wasn't posted but it was there in a drawer for reference. 

A found nail was a rare thing but one to be celebrated. Mostly we found clippings and black sand. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

I personally think peoples expectations of a farrier are way out of line.. 

A horse should be trained properly to stand for shoeing, trimming, floating..  

Most bad behaviors are training related or a lack there of..   

99% of my new customer base is/are for bad horses that have given the farrier a hard time and the farrier had enough and smacked the horse and thrown out of the barn.. 

Like most people horses get tired of being hurt while being worked on.. 

A horse that does not stand perfectly for the farrier is either not very well trained or has sore feet and is fed up.. 

If the feet are sore and you find a horse that is antsy or misbehaves more and more when the farrier comes is a clear sign things are messed up.. 

One who has been around horses long enough can easily see the difference..  Owners should be doing all  they can to make the job tolerable..  

Train the horses to stand, not bite, have the horses in and dry when it's  been raining or snowing (wet feet are extremely slippery)..   And if it's hot out.. Somewhere in the shade to work and a water to drink as well as water to wash up with when finished. 

I do between 30 and 50 horses a week and it's amazing how many people think the farrier is a trainer, social worker and bar maiden..  

When I was doing a bunch of shoeing every once in a while a new nail might miss the box..   If the owners are that concerned in a spot that is dirty and filled with shavings or soft sand, then they should be ready with a magnet.. 

Most farriers as pointed out are made to be responsible for it all..   Not only is that unfair but as a farrier I can not control the environment the owner expects me to work in.  

I've worked in mud, snow, swamp, rain storms, etc, etc. etc..  People need to have a realistic idea of what can be expected.. 

 

[M.J.Lampert]

yes the horse makes a difference but also the attitude of the people around horses can tell if your grumpy or indifferent

same like how you approach the horse energy-wise makes a difference if you can catch it

[jlpservicesinc]

2 examples of the most recent problem with untrained horses.. 

First one.. 

Been working on the horse for about 5 years..  Stands mediocre and the owner coddles the horse saying it will eventually learn to stand..  8 Year old Gypsy..    There a few weeks ago and I get done on all 4 feet.. Standing there and the horse reaches over and bites my arm on purpose..   So I punch it in the mouth.. 

The owners reaction is this:    Huh, the horse has bitten me 3 x in the last week..     In my mind.. first off why are you letting the horse bite you?  Horses can bite right threw bone and a crushing injury is the worst you can have.. 

I bet after I punched the horse in the mouth the horse stopped doing it.. At least for a week or 2..  Horses learn from other horses..  To many horses we as people are just other horses to be dominated..     Alpha mare, Apha male.. 

Next was another horse different job, maybe 6 years in..  Usually stands perfectly.. 

Women takes the horse out before I get there and lets the horse graze on the lead.. 

Woman takes horse away from grass.  Horse wants grass and the woman is just standing there sleeping as the horse throws me on my face (busted a tooth) to get back to the grass.. 

I roll out of it, spit my tooth piece out and say to the woman why didn't you correct the horse when you noticed what was going on when it started..  No response..    

Ok, ok.. I grab the foot again, this time the horse starts to move.. I grab the lead out of the womans hand and give it a few wiggles to back the horse up to get it's attention..    

Once, twice on the wiggles..  Horse stands fine for the rest of the trimming. 

These are behaviors that are training related which as a farrier I am not responsible for.. 

You want to have the best work done..   As an owner provide the best working environment.. 

13 minutes ago, M.J.Lampert said:

yes the horse makes a difference but also the attitude of the people around horses can tell if your grumpy or indifferent

same like how you approach the horse energy-wise makes a difference if you can catch it

Parents make excuses for kids and their behaviors the same way horse owners make excuses for horses.

 

Either poorly trained can hurt or kill you. 

[anvil]

I am just the opposite. Teaching and training both owners and horses was part of my job, just like every job was a corrective job.. In the long run it usually went like this. The ones who listened and worked with their horses, and me, more often than not ended up being steady customers. A win-Win situation. Those who didn't usually by their choice,,, or mine,,, usually found a new horse sho'er and that too, was a Win-Win situation. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Anvil of course you do the opposite.. LOL..

How long did you shoe/trim horses for? 

[Frosty]

I'm with you anvil. The farrier is the professional horse handler, most modern owners don't really know that much about handling, let alone reading a horse's mood or intents. I learned quite a bit from our regular farrier, not specifics but HOW to watch a horse and some of the more universal cues. 

We only had one mare who wouldn't ground rein for the farrier unless it was a woman but Babe didn't like men at all. It was up to Shannon to hold her for the farrier or she'd go really rank. I COULD hold Babe but it wasn't a happy experience for any of us. 

Banjo my Appaloosa gelding was a joker, he always tested, everybody. A farrier that elbowed his ribs or gave him an open palm slap and simple command was good he settled right down.  What was his most common farrier trick? Like so many horses he'd lean, a loud slap and a disinterested, "move over." was it, test passed.

The #1 reason to learn to get your horse to behave for the farrier is as simple as $. The longer it takes to shoe your horse the more it costs. 

Biters are dangerous, REALLY dangerous but they telegraph their intent to do harm. What experienced handler can't spot those cues? Getting lipped by a horse is most often a sign of affection but if you can't see the horse's head change shape to open their mouth for a bite. . . Nevermind.

I've never been surprised by an attempted bite and the rewards were always an elbow to the nose, right between the nostrils. Then I'd gentle their mood down and when they settled give them a goodie. Like pulling some grass out of the field or yard and giving it to them. I repeat biter got a reputation nobody ignored. 

Below is Banjo and I cir 67-69. We moved out of that house in 71 and after 69 Dad couldn't FORCE me to get haircuts.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Frosty Appaloosa's are my favorites.. 

[Frosty]

Mine too, Banjo and I had some great times. It doesn't show in this pic, even if you know what to look for but he was a full medicine hand Appalossa, one print on each side of his rump. I'll have to remind my Sister to send me a copy of the good pic. She was riding him in a parade with her Blue Shadows drill team and one pic shows the left side hand print like it was painted on. The one on his right rump isn't as clear but with the right light. She and Banjo actually made the evening news, he stopped right in front of the judges stand, lifted his tail and left a load. I swear he could do that at will. The joker.

I miss horses but not the work an there was just no way once I moved out on my own. Good memories though. Really good.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

17 years as a full time farrier. That includes about 4 years transition from farrier to traditional smith. 8 horses \day, average 6 days a week until I started smithing. 6 was an easy day, 8 was average, 10 was a good day and 12+ was a day to get thru. All shod.  I rarely did dude strings or fancy stables, and my private clients covered the whole gamut from serious showing, working with Vets and trainers  to dressage, reining, cutting and racing to my very fav customers,,,, those 12 year old little girls who mounted up at 6 am and you had to pry them off their horse at midnight,,, That one job "worth a beer in any bar" was being the "official Farrier for the Rocky Mtn Paint Horse finals at the stock show in Denver for about 6 years.

"Anvil of course you do the opposite.. LOL.."

I almost added that,,,

19 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

shoe/trim

Redundant question, For me, They go together under the moniker of Farrier or horse shoer. I encouraged my clients to go barefoot 3 months out of the year. The only ones I knew who just trimmed were an occasional home owner who did his own or some who were in the same situation and did a few for the neighbors. 

You have two firsts going for you, Jen, not that there aren't more,,,   and that is you are the only person I've ever known who went from blacksmith to farrier,,,, and back,,, after many years out of the fire,,,, and the only pro farrier who just trims,,,   

"99% of my new customer base is/are for bad horses that have given the farrier a hard time and the farrier had enough and smacked the horse and thrown out of the barn.."

I can't help but comment on this one. That situation ended about 3 years into my business due to my belief in being a  trainer. See above,,,  During that time, I found I had a knack with hard to manage horses. Lol, I even considered advertising for hard to do horses as my "Specialty!" Lol, for once,  better sense prevailed,,,   

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Being good at something does not mean that it should be part of the job..  

It was fun reading Frosty's reply about agreeing with you and then punching the horse in the mouth and being ready for it.. 

This moved him in "Training a horse"  if he owned the horse then it's exactly what I had mentioned about the owner being responsible for the training..   If he is the by stander then it still applies, that he took the "training" of the horse upon himself.  

Just because I'm good at training a horse..  (34 years, 30-50horses a week, 99% of new customers are for bad horses).. Does not mean I want to..   I even charge extra for the training.. I get 40.00 for a flat fee be it 5min or 20min..  75.00 per hour on top of the trimming fee which currently is 95 per horse up to size 1 foot.. Upcharge larger sizes.. 

My point is or was that while many owners look at the farrier as the trainer for the horse they should not.. 

If the farrier takes it upon themselves to train the horse that's on them but again, it should be the responsibility of the owner..  They are responsible for all the rest of it.. Be it paying someone to train the horse, etc,etc.. 

I'd rather have the horses trained and ready before I get there..  I don't have time to mess around with someones horse if it's ill trained as pointed out 99% of the new customers are just that.. 

Funniest thing is.. It's the people who need training and it's the most difficult part of the job..  Horses are the easy part. 

Just like anything.. Humans are more complex and much more difficult..