What did you do in the shop today?

[Chris C]

You must have misunderstood what I was saying, Frosty.  Nope.............never had it backfire.    I was just saying "what if I turned down the fuel".  Nope, the burner is running just fine.  Heck, it used up all my propane.   I'm like a fisherman in the middle of the lake who just ran out of gas for his putt-putt!   All is well at the forge.

[Frosty]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:59 PM, Chris C said:

If I turn down the fuel, I'm afraid it'll back up into the burner. 

What you're describing in this sentence is a backfire, unless you're afraid something else is going back up in your burner.   You have me hooked like one of those fish you're after. What were you really afraid of happening? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chris C]

I wasn't trying to hook anyone, Frosty.  I was simply saying I was afraid to turn down the fuel because it might backfire.  The comment was made because I don't know how to vary the temperature in the forge and thought you/someone might make some recommendations.

[Les L]

Less fuel and air =less heat. The air will prevent the fuel from backing up in the burner, unless you turn the air down too much.

[Cannon Cocker]

Thanks for advise frosty. I have a friend that told me not to fix it because he wants to buy it as left handed. So I'll fine tune the screw and put a nice Olive oil finish on it and sell it to him. 

[Chris C]

Thanks, Les.  I don't have a gauge on my propane line.  Think I should buy one so I'll have at least "some" sort of reference.  All I can say at this point is my needle valve is only open 1/4 of a turn.........................which actually means absolutely nothing!

[jlpservicesinc]

On a blown forge, it really becomes balancing out the gas to air ratio..   Even on low fuel pressures you just cut back the air.   Instead of relying on the orifice like on a NA forge to get the right air fuel mixture to tube diameter and fuel pressure.   

YOU can control all of it..   Turn pressure of fuel down, turn air down now you have a soft, lower heat fire.   Wanna have a welding or melting heat, turn up the fuel and pressure.  Wanna oxidizing, neutral or reducing atmospere in the forge..  Just change the air ratio for a given fuel pressure.. Or just do the fuel pressure..   

Anyhow,  You will get it figured out..   A lot of it can be done by sound once you get used to it..   If you get a fuel pressure gauge then getting a flow meter for the air will be helpful if you want to run that way so you can write down the info for future reference. 

I do love that forge.. Job well done. 

[Chris C]

Thanks, Jennifer.............for the info and the compliment.  I do plan on putting a gauge on the propane line.  But where do I get a flow meter for the air?  I've been searching since I decided that information might come in handy.

[jlpservicesinc]

Manometer????   Its been a long time since I looked into these types of things..  You might just find a flow meter..   

 

[Chris C]

I've looked.  I've got a meteorologist level anemometer, but don't think there's any way I could put it in the flow of the air.  Need something that will go into the 2" piping.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Chris,

Make a U-bend Manometer with a piece of clear/semi clear plastic hose. One end is open to atmosphere, one end connected to your Air intake plenum (between the blower and the burner). Lay out a cardboard scale, 1" increments. +1" etc. and -1" etc. 10" up and 10" down equals 20" differential pressure/vacuum. Use water, specific gravity is 1.00.

I use these kind of Manometers on my Cylinder Head Flow Bench, when I need an unknown amount of pressure/vacuum reading. Use water because you don't have to worry about spillage (not that you would make a mess. LOL).

Neil

[Chris C]

hmmmmm.  Not quite sure I understand what you are explaining, Neil.  Any pics?

[jlpservicesinc]

Look at carb syncronizers for motorcycles. 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Take your pencil and a compass, on a piece of cardboard or plywood. draw half a circle, draw 2 vertical lines from each leg of the semi-circle, parallel. Support your hose on each side of the vertical lines. put water inside the hose, when the water balances at the same height, that is your zero. lay out your increment marks. One end of the hose is open to atmosphere, the other end goes to a small nipple that is threaded into the side of your Air Pipe.

If you can't figure this out, look up U-shaped Manometer with Miss Google.

Neil

[jlpservicesinc]

I just found a 1.25" one for both water and air and it was only 320.00

 

Look up: Anemometers
found on the A store

• Measuring wind direction with angle.indication(E—East wind, W--West Wind, S--South Wind,N--North Wind, ES--Southeast Wind, EN--Northeast Wind,WS--Southwest Wind, WN--Northwest Wind)
• Designed with USB for connection with computer and real-time measurement,record up to 960 datas
• Measuring the wind speed (unit:m/s,ft/min,Knots,Km/h,Mph), air volume(CFM,CMM), temperature(℃,℉) and humidity(%RH).
• Measuring Air volume 2/3 max/ave value and wind speed/air volume max/min/ave value function.
• Retractable handle,extended to 53cm/20.86 inch.

[Latticino]

U-tube manometer like swedefiddle has described or a $100 Magnihelic gauge that reads in inches of water gauge (see WW Graingers, among others).  Couple that to a Pitot-static probe and you are in business for figuring the flow velocity of your airstream.  Another alternative would be a hot wire anemometer, but you need one of the others to calibrate it, so not as helpful.

That being said, preignition inside the ribbon burner mixing chamber is a real issue to be concerned about.  These burners do have a minimum acceptable flowrate, which varies with the temperature inside your forge.  It certainly is easier and safer to run the forge at low fire, then increase it, rather than go from high fire down.  If you do need to do the latter I recommend opening the doors and letting it cool down (possibly with just the air running for a little till you get to the target temperature).

[Chris C]

Ha-ha, Jennifer, did it come with a benefactor?

2 hours ago, swedefiddle said:

Take your pencil and a compass, on a piece of cardboard or plywood. draw half a circle, draw 2 vertical lines from each leg of the semi-circle, parallel. Support your hose on each side of the vertical lines. put water inside the hose, when the water balances at the same height, that is your zero. lay out your increment marks. One end of the hose is open to atmosphere, the other end goes to a small nipple that is threaded into the side of your Air Pipe.

Okay, I get it, Neil, thanks.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

9 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

carb syncronizers

I had a smile with that. It brought back memories trying to keep the three carburetors synchronized on my 1972 Datsun 240Z in my bachelor days between wife #1 and#2.

[swedefiddle]

Manometers come in different heights and bore size. 1.25 bore would need lots of pressure to move the water. You can use a semi-clear garden hose. The same as you can use a garden hose for a level. 50 foot garden hose is a very long level, water will balance at level.

Neil

[Chris C]

I used a "water level" when I built my barn.  Was telling a neighbor about it one day and he said he uses a lazer in his bull-dozing business.  Offered to come over and check my markers.  Said I had one corner marked a quarter of an inch low.

Thanks, Neil.

[BillyBones]

1 hour ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

my 1972 Datsun 240Z

In good condition those go for about $40,000 now a days. Wish you would have kept it now aye? Fun fact, Nissan introduced them back in the 70's as Datsun, the reason was if they were not well like it would not reflect badly on the Nissan name. 

[pnut]

4 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Look at carb syncronizers for motorcycles

When I was 15 I had a 1980 or 81 Kawasaki GSXR 1000 drag bike. It would have made my life much easier if I would have known about synchronizers way back then lol.

Pnut

[jlpservicesinc]

One thing to keep in mind we are talking about a system that functions under pressure vs vacuum..

If you do use it, you would have to install it in front of the intake of the blower. 

the unit I looked at was about 90.00 and you hold it front of the intake and it gives a direct reading on a meter.. 

A constant pressure blower is tough but volume vs velocity is a unique thing. 

Chris how are you controlling the amount of air going to the burner? 

[ThomasPowers]

Well not "in" the shop; but adjacent to it: I came home from work yesterday and drove in 5 T posts for the backyard fence project---before dinner.  A smithing buddy was going to bring over a fence post driver but had to self isolate and so I'm doing it the old fashioned way.  Luckily I have sledgehammers with short handles...I've also have been using my screw press to straighten the posts.  They were pulled in a hurry at my rental when I was moving back home. (Pickup with a hitch ball, chain and steel scrap wheel.)

At this rate I'll be down to the gates by the time Monday rolls around.

[Chris C]

Same here, Thomas.  Just sat down to practice running beads with my Tombstone welder.  (in the shop)  Gotta improve and practice is the only way.  Little wife came out of the house and hollered "We have no water pressure!".  So off I go to the pump house.  (not in the shop) Not being either an electrician or a well pump guy, it took me the better part of the afternoon to figure out it was the capacitor in the box that needed replacing.  Got that taken care of and the pump still wouldn't work.  Seems the pressure switch went down on the same day.  Got another and replaced it.  Now we've got water.................but by the time I got it all done it was dinner time and I was too pooped to mess with the welder.  Sigh!  So goes another day in "lock-down".