Fall 2022 challenge!

[Frosty]

Thanks for the link John, that sure looks like a simple technique for a dramatic effect. Having a fly press would be deBOMB!

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

I’m already thinking about improvements to tooling and technique to make it even better. 

[Frosty]

Me too John, I love the feature but not the tool except as a one off or a short cut "how too" tool. HIs having to be careful not to hit the previous "divot?" should be all it takes to get the modify gears turning in folks heads.

My first thought was to make the tool from flat bar say 1/2" x 1" x 1" on a welded handle. A fuller with semi-spherical ends like a hack or power hammer top tool. EZ PZ.

With the tool taller than the feature you're making you can get with the program and use a BIG hammer and let it overlap previous impressions. With both ends of the fuller ground to shape you won't be walking around to the other side of the anvil to make the next impression. With a two strike weight hammer and a two sided tool it might go fast enough to make two impressions per heat. The only other step would be rolling the piece, that'd let it cool between smooshes.

I mean HECK a spring tool under a treadle hammer or screw press and you could hold the piece with tongs and get several strikes between heats or do them all under a power hammer.

I'm thinking about what kind of swage I'll need to apply the feature to round stock. Visualize a diamond twist tight enough to be dragon scales and forging a sine-wave spinal crest on it. I'm thinking I'd use a larger radius rounded fuller for a more gentle longer sine ridge and HOPE some of the scaly diamond twist survives for texture. 

Thanks again for making the letter opener and posting the link John, you have my imagination rolling!

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

I'm on the road for work and so can't get into the shop to take a photo, but the tool I used in my fly press is similar to what you describe as a PH hack, just mounted on a stem to fit in the ram. Both ends are rounded, so I could punch one impression with one end, roll the bar 90 degrees, punch the second impression, roll back, etc. It was a little tricky, though, since the line-of-sight to the back corner of the tool wasn't great, making proper positioning a challenge. You can see on the second peak from the right where I got two divots a bit too close together, making a sharp peak instead of a smooth sine curve.

For the next one, I'm thinking about using a piece of angle iron as a fence and a piece of 16ga. sheet as a kiss block, and working it all from the front. I'll need to flip the bar end-for-end, but with better visibility and less time wasted on positioning, I still think it will go faster and look better.

[Frosty]

If you mount the fence to the guides for the hammer they won't be interfered with by the divots. Consistent thickness is good. 

A spacing guide is what I'm thinking about now. Have you considered mounting a laser sight? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

No, but I was envisioning a geared mechanism that would lock as the ram comes down, and then when the ram retracts, the mechanism would unlock and advance the workpiece a set distance!

[Frosty]

Ahhhh! Shades of the feed on a hand cranked drill press! I'll have to think about the idea but I'm seeing problems at first blush. 1 how and where will it hold the piece? 2 how does it cope with rotating the piece every blow? 

I like the idea but will have to think of a way to make it automatic enough to advance the work too. 

My first blush idea was a clamp on, tab say a short piece of angle iron connected to the back of the bar away from the dies. The operator would move it in the index when s/he rotated the stock. For example a 9/16" index for a 1/2" die. 

You can set your screw press for depth or is that one of the missing bits? 

The fence could be away from the dies on the end that hasn't met the dies so there is no interference from the divots.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

I'm missing the depth stop, but a friend of mine who coaches a robotics team has had one of his students 3D print a model of a replacement. Once I get to test that, we'll see about machining one in steel. 

In the mean time, I think a kiss block would work just fine, both for this and for other applications.

24 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I'll have to think about the idea but I'm seeing problems at first blush.

Hey, I didn’t say it was a good idea!

[Frosty]

Kiss blocks are easy good solutions.

I didn't say it was a bad one. We were brainstorming weren't we? Everybody throws out ideas no matter how outlandish and we sift for good ones. If your fellow brainstormers don't contribute by poking holes and asking "how" questions in addition to donating wild thoughts they aren't serious players, are they?

All the unused ideas a good session generates are there to bank for future projects, problems, etc. No?

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Rojo Pedro]

A fly press would be bomb but I am also impressed with John Switzers treadle hammer. Both in its construction and his use of it.

I like the idea of having both hands free but I suppose the screw and tool would replace one hand. 

[George N. M.]

I have a very similar treadle hammer to the one in John's shop and the design works very well.  I find the advantage is that it hits precisely time after time.  The fact that it hits harder than you can by hand is somewhat off set by the fact that subsequent blows are slower than what you can do by hand.

Handled tools (actual handle or held with a tongs or vise grip) are a necessity.  I had a punch which I wasn't holding exactly straight kick out to the side and I got a partial impact on a finger.  It wasn't right for 6 months to a year and that wasn't as disasterous as it could have been.

I suggest that if you can find someone with one in their shop (unfortunately, it is about 1000 driving miles from Vail to Laramie) and test drive it before you get serious about acquiring or building one.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[BillyBones]

John Switzer at the Black Bear forge did a couple videos years back where he was not smithing becuase he crushed his hand in the treadle hammer. I think one of those videos was the importance of using handled tools. 

[JHCC]

I believe he injured himself on the power hammer, not the treadle hammer.

[lary]

Trying to come up with something different amongst all this stiff competition is definitely a challenge. The blade is spring steel. Glass,steel,fire,hammer don't mix well. Speaking of John Switzer, wear your safety glasses.

[BillyBones]

JHCC, you may be correct about that, like i said it has been a few years ago that i watched it. 

Lary, i like the marble in that. Something i have yet to try. 

[Shainarue]

I like that Lary. A marble encapsuled wand was actually the first thing my wife requested that I make. I told her it might be awhile yet, lol

Yours turned out nice. 

[Frosty]

Slumping marbles takes practice, you have to heat slowly and cool even more slowly, an over night temper isn't out of line. A friend of mine slumps marbles almost casually but not me. Oh noooo, not ME! <sniff>

I bought some torchwork glass "noodles" an a little bright red frit which is much more forgiving glass and comes in lots of colors. Below are with red, glass frit.  I screwed up the church key much to my embarrassment. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Rojo Pedro]

Thanks for the info George. I might invite my self over next year. We want to explore your neck of the woods. 

Really nice Lary.

Frosty I agree that slumping and torchwork in general takes practice and equipment. My MAPP torch works ok on mild glass and annealing is iffy without an oven. I like the frit on iron idea, I imagine it would stick together in the kiln before the iron scaled up too much. Might have to try

[Frosty]

Something thin like the little split crosses fuse frit nicely on a hot brick next to the propane forge opening. The dragon's breath slumps the glass and the brick takes hours to cool if covered with a piece of Kaowool or placed in the forge chamber next to the one I'm using. 

Molten glass sticks to everything and leaves long glass strands like spider thread. It's messy but fun.

Frosty The Lucky.

[lary]

Thanks guy's. The tricky part is heating bending/tapping the material around the marble before the steel gets to cold or the glass fractures/shatters. I've got idea's on how to get around some of this on my to do list.

[George N. M.]

Lary, I'd try shaping the "claws" or other mounting method to just about the size to accept the marble and then anneal the area.  Once it has cooled and is more malleable I would insert the marble and close it up cold.  The success will be dependent on what kind of steel you are using.  You might try an experimental piece of the same steel to see how malleable it is after annealling.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[lary]

Thanks George. Mild steel for the handle. I'll experiment with that method you mention. My thought was, to use a ball bearing the same size as the marble to form most of the forming. 

[bluerooster]

So far what I've seen here is so good that I'm embarrassed to submit my entry.  Oh well, it's forged from a Model A Ford leaf spring.  No heat treat it's a letter opener.

[Rojo Pedro]

I agree rooster but yours is up there at the top to me.  Very nice

[Shainarue]

Just wait till you see mine bluerooster. That is, if I ever get to it! 

I think yours looks very distinguished. I can picture it on an ebony desk next to a leather blotter pad.