What did you do in the shop today?

[JHCC]

 Two things about that chisel: the first is that you need to close up the base of the socket. Otherwise, the handle is just going to push straight through, especially when struck with a mallet. You might also want to run a bead of weld up the joint, just to keep the whole thing from opening up under pressure.

Second, if the chisel is going to be used primarily for paring, you might want to crank the socket forward, to give more clearance on the back.

[Mark Ling]

Darn, it looks like back to the forge. Darn. I had asked him if he wanted an offset socket, and he replied that he didn't. Thank you for catching that, I wouldn't have guessed that. I only work with wood when I have to.

                                                                                                                  Littleblacksmith

[JHCC]

I'd suggest forge welding the socket, but that probably wouldn't work if your coil was 5160.

I must say, though, that the blade on that looks great.

[Tubalcain2]

1 hour ago, littleblacksmith said:

I only work with wood when I have to.

yup. that's me too.

[Mark Ling]

Thank you!

Do you think the socket would come undone without welding it? I would think that that the wood insert would splinter before that happened. It is just that I have seen so many done this way. I could get by maybe electrically welding it. Thoughts?

                                                                                                                     Littleblacksmith

[Melw45]

I strated a no weld grinder.

You can see the pics in this thread.

Mel

[JHCC]

If the chisel is just going to be pushed by hand, it's probably okay as-is. If there is any chance that it's going to be struck with a hammer or a mallet,  I would worry about what happens as repeated blows slowly force the tapered end of the handle farther and farther inside the socket. If the metal is too soft, the socket could open up. If it's too hard, the socket could crack,  especially since the socket as it stands will have a bit of flex to it. 

The advantage of a solidly welded socket is that it distributes the compressive force all the way around, with less chance of it finding and exploiting a weak spot. 

So, yes: electrically welding would be good. I defer to those with more welding experience for advise on pre- and post-heat, etc. 

[Gergely]

I'd weld it with arc - MIG or SMAW wichever is closest. Preheat it in the forge to black heat or so. Weld it, then put it back and normalize the welded part + 1". While welding you could benefit from something backing the seam from the inside, like brass or copper sheet shaped to touch the inner surface of the socket. That way you can avoid the unwanted bulbs going into the socket.

Bests.

Gergely

[Mark Ling]

I see now.

So Gergely, what your saying is to take a piece of copper sheet and form it to the inside? just making sure I'm doing things right.

                                                                                                                             Littleblacksmith

[Gergely]

Yes, if you use that as a backing plate it works as an obstacle for the molten steel while welding. This way there will be no steel bulbs/blobs inside the socket. Use as thick copper sheet as you can get.

Bests:

Gergely

[Mark Ling]

Ok thanks, I'm thinking I'll just use a piece of copper pipe.

                                                                                                                                    Littleblacksmith

[JHCC]

 That sounds like a good idea, especially if you cold-forge the pipe down to the proper taper first. 

[Glenn]

1 hour ago, littleblacksmith said:

I'm thinking I'll just use a piece of copper pipe.                                                                                                                                    Littleblacksmith

The copper pipe will have a circular shape and may not fit the inside contour, or fit the taper, of the socket.

May I suggest that you cut the copper pipe the long way and them slice off a workable section. Adjust the taper and the curve of the copper sheet to fit and conform to the inside of the socket.

Clean and prepare the surface to be welded. Place the taper and curved copper sheet inside the socket and wedge it into place. The bottom of the weld should conform to the surface of the copper, but not stick. The better the fit of the copper sheet to the socket, the better the surface of the weld on the inside of the socket. 

[Mark Ling]

Thank you Glenn, that sounds like an easier way to do it!

does the very bottom of the socket need to be sealed with weld?

And also the top of the socket I don't think I will weld, unless ya'll think it should be. Today I will try and bring the socket together at the bottom, and hopefully weld it if my brother is around to do so, though the radio broadcaster is coming today hopefully, so may not have the time.

                                                                                                                             Littleblacksmith

[Glenn]

The purpose of the weld is to keep the socket from spreading apart. So if you have only a short weld in the center portion of the socket, can the ends of the socket spread apart, or flair out?

Where is the weld on the socket is most likely to start to fail, in the middle of the weld or at the ends of the weld? 

 

 

[Mark Ling]

I will try my best to get the bottom of the socket sealed, but I'm just not sure I can get the top of the socket closed?

                                                                                                                 Littleblacksmith

 

[Glenn]

Use this socket as a prototype and, under heavy use, you should have the answer to your question. Look at what others have done and how their sockets have been made. 

Use all this information as a consideration for the NEXT socket. (grin)

 

No one said you had to get it right the first time. You just have to improve each time you do it again.

[Mark Ling]

I will only do a couple more of these, hopefully. If they sell really good, than well.....

I had meant to have the radio Broadcaster strike for me, as it would have been really easy to use a large radius top and bottom fuller to close up the bottom of the socket, but instead I had him strike on a piece of 2" round, to make the billet square for a hammer tomorrow. could have kept it round, but I kinda like the looks of a square hammer. Anyways, I have a friend coming over to heat treat his knife, and work on the hammer. Maybe I'll have him strike if he does a good job. Or there is always dad..... Or just a hand hammer over the horn!

                                                                                                                                        Littleblacksmith

[arkie]

Mark,

I think that you could make it work with either MIG or stick welding.  MIG will give you a slightly smoother, nicer looking weld, but even a rougher one can be ground/filed smooth.  Depends on the experience of the person doing the welding!  The suggestion of copper backing is good; that prevents weldment from building up on the inside, necessitating filing it smooth for the handle.  The reason for the copper is that the molten weld metal will not stick to copper...it's a backing process.  The socket metal is not thick enough to require pre- or post-heat.  Weld as-is.  Best approach would be to weld what you can where the seam is touching the most.  About a 1" to 1 1/2" long bead in the middle area should hold it.  It appears that your socket is probably about 1/8" thick by now.  A weld there would give you ample support.  Heavy pounding would deform even a full length weld if it were hit hard enough.  Work with what ya got.  If it breaks, maybe offer to make another like Glenn said.

[olfart]

If the socket dimensions are not critical, you could also run your angle grinder with cutoff wheel down the seam in the socket, removing a little of the rounded edges in the midsection.  Then heat and tap the sides to bring the seam back together to weld.  It would give you a longer welded seam.

[Mark Ling]

I may do that, just to get it closer together. I had thought about that, I just wont do it too much 'cause I don't want to make the socket too small, but it would help.

woke up this morning drenched in sweat, our air conditioner went out last night. And today the heat index is to be 110F, so this will be fun. Mom said no forging today.....Oh well. Hopefully it doesn't take to long to get fixed.

Littleblacksmith

[ThomasPowers]

Blacksmiths Air Conditioning: step away from the forge!

I used to find forging more comfortable than not when I lived in Oklahoma as it would help dry me off rather than standing there dripping sweat. (I also took time release salt pills and drank a LOT of water)

[arkie]

13 hours ago, olfart said:

If the socket dimensions are not critical, you could also run your angle grinder with cutoff wheel down the seam in the socket, removing a little of the rounded edges in the midsection.  Then heat and tap the sides to bring the seam back together to weld.  It would give you a longer welded seam.

Very good suggestion, OF!!

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

For backers I have used copper, brass, and aluminum. Pretty much whatever I had on hand at the moment. One of the recent Woodwright's Shop shows had a guy on that forged a socketed chisel. He use wrought, and forge welded on an edge, but the process he used to make it may be of help for further projects. 

[JHCC]

Progress.