ausfire Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Not sure if I should have placed this is the 'Anvils' forum, but that seems more about reviews of anvil types.Anyway, I want to know how critical is the height at which the anvil is set. I imagine that it would change depending on the stature of the person using it.I have read numerous times that the face of the anvil should be level with the knuckles of the clenched fist of the person standing beside it. Sounds reasonable enough, but is that 100% cast iron certain or open to adjustment??The reason I ask is that the anvil I use mostly for demos is set on a 2ft diameter hardwood stump about 18 inches into in the ground. It was originally set up by a bloke a bit smaller than me.I was hammering away on it a few weeks ago when a visitor who had been observing me for some time commented that the anvil was too low and I would damage my back. He said he was a retired smith and seemed to know what he was talking about. We have since got the bobcat in and lifted the anvil and block out and raised it about 6 inches. It does feel a lot better to work on, especially since the majority of stuff I make is small and does not require heavy sledging.Like many of us, I am subject to back problems from time to time and do all I can to avoid the pain and lost time due to debilitating spasms.Is there a case for having a second anvil much higher, say even waist height, for forging small items like leaf keyrings etc.How important is anvil height for you, and how do you determine what is optimal height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm gonna keep an eye on this as I'm interested in what people think as well. I have mine mounted at about waist height because I tried it lower and it was uncomfortable and hard on my back. I forge a hot cut for my anvil out of 2" H13 with it at that height and I didn't really think about it being to high but maybe I just don't know any better. After all I haven't been doing this very long. I guess my opinion is do what works and feels comfortable for you. I want to see what the experts say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I like mine higher than knuckle I believe that height is in place when a striker is used with top tools ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 As with anything, it depends on use and user. Like my anvil a little higher, as a bladesmith it makes it easier to squat down and inspect blade straightness. But a high anvil makes striking with a sledge a little awkward and you can loose some force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Knuckle high is a starting point. Place your anvil on the stump etc at knuckle high and level the face in all directions. Take into consideration is the face is worn on one side or the other, one end or the other, but you want it generally level. Put a piece of soft wood sheeting (1/2 or 3/4 inch thickness) on the face of the anvil and hit it 3 times with your blacksmithing hammer. Look at the impressions. If the crescent is at 12 o'clock the anvil is too low. If the crescent is at 6 o'clock the anvil is too high. If the crescent is at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock you are holding your hammer tilted to the side. This assumes that your using a round face hammer. Adjust as needed to get the full impression to be a full circle. Your hammer is now hitting flat no matter what your physical height. The anvil should be adjusted to be a little lower for striking. Use the wood again to fine tune the adjustment. All this is to get the hammer to hit FLAT and full face on the work. You can then adjust the anvil to meet YOUR needs. I know of at least one smith that wanted the anvil much higher due to the lighter work he was doing AND so he could be much closer to the work, and see much better. His solution was to tilt the anvil slightly toward him and cut the face angle of the hammer to match the anvil in the elevated position for his personal comfort. He was doing specific production work on this set up, NOT general smithing. He ended up doing his work sitting on a stool so relieve stress on his back, and his personal comfort. Remember this was production work. The proper height is to get the hammer to hit FLAT and full face on the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'd agree with everything above, and emphasize the importance of putting some thought into your decision (which you are doing) as there is no one answer for everyone. Like many of us, I am subject to back problems from time to time and do all I can to avoid the pain and lost time due to debilitating spasms. Is there a case for having a second anvil much higher, say even waist height, for forging small items like leaf keyrings etc. How important is anvil height for you, and how do you determine what is optimal height? As a "smith" who makes his living by working as a Physical Therapist (that's Physiotherapist for those outside the US) for the past 20 years, if your main concern is to avoid back pain, I'd suggest bringing your concerns to your local Physiotherapist for the answer. Your back pains may or may not have anyhing to do with your anvil height. It may be tight hamstrings, relatively weak lower abdominal muscles or just an incorrect posture while at the anvil. In my practice, one of the more common causes of lower back pain is flexing at the spine as opposed to the hips and relying on the relatively small spinal extensor muscles to hold your position instead of the large hip extensors (gluteals) to perform the same task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I have my main anvil at wrist height. You will often find older anvil set-ups quite a bit lower, as a high anvil soon becomes difficult for a striker. Perhaps start at the recommended knuckle height, or a bit lower. Then you can add little bits of wood or whatever to raise your anvil as you so wish. Certainly I think most smiths nowadays mainly forging detail work will have their anvils a good deal higher than in times past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 My shop anvil is set at knuckle hight where I use larger/heavier hammer. Wile my truck anvil is at rist hight where I use smaller lighter hammers for shoe work. As I've gained experience I find that I'm more comfortable with the lower anvil hight now, and will be lowering the truck anvil stand. Bend your knees if your havin trouble seeing what your doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Glenn and Charles "nailed" it. But, if I may, the more anvil objects the better. I have some that are too tall but work great for planishing and fine tuning. I feel strain all over if I go to really moving metal there so I move back to a lower surface while really pounding and the strain dissipates. The best height for me seems to be 2" up from the end of my knuckles. Having a choice I move back and forth to the anvil/surface I want for the task without thinking about it much. So, I would rather have choices, and I can always find a block of steel or RR track to set up for another forging die. I'll take some pictures this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The anvil surface is at my waistband. I really like this thing for setting edges and corners, setting rivets. It's too high for repeated pounding but my go to surface for a lot of small items. The corners step down from sharp to about 1/2" radius. The steel is soft so I just redress with grinder as needed. Don't know what the cones were. Maybe out of a small crusher. They have threaded holes in each end and are connected by a stud. My first "anvil". The big chunk. It's the picture in the center with the post vise. It's height is about 2" above my knuckle dragging height. Got to the point that I didn't care about a real anvil. And, like the ladies, when u don't care anymore, or you already have one, the anvils start raining. The rebound is crazy off this one over the post. This is where things get pounded with strikers and heavy handed blows. This plate is 1 1/2 thick and weighs about 150lbs. It gets slid around, welded to the table, flat or on edge and used for all kinds of whacking. Also makes a good backer. Oh yeah, an actual anvil. 345lb PW. Set 2" high of the knuckles. . 162 lb Trenton set up for shorties ; ) Whew, forging is easier than sharing pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 wrist for knives; knuckles for sledging, wherever it makes my back feel good even after hours of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 All of my anvils are very high off the ground. My wrist/elbow/shoulder chain is very flexible and I can adjust for the size of the hammer and type of blow I want. There is zero reason to have a low anvil that forces you to stoop in the least. If you do a lot of sledge work, you need a lower anvil so your striker can develop a full blow, but that's it. If you're not doing a lot of sledge work, bring your anvil up to whatever height is needed to stand comfortably. IIRC, my main anvil's face is 31" off the floor. I use top tools, swages and swing-arm fullers all the time and the added height doesn't hurt. Another way of looking at it --> I have a workbench that I used all the time for nailing lumber together. It's at typical workbench height and I can pound nails all day long without stooping over. How is that any different than forging small stock on an anvil? Knuckle height is a good starting point, but don't hesitate to go higher is that's what it takes for being comfortable and keep you from stooping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admanfrd Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Mine is Halfway up my forearm and works great! When I need some height, I Jenga some 2x4s and make a stand. This is mostly for hole punching and drifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Davies Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My anvil is set about 4" higher than knuckle height. It's a big section of wide flange beam, so not trivial to adjust it. I keep putting off taking the torch to it, so I knocked together a little platform to stand on and make up the height. This has become very convenient, as I can adjust my anvil height at a moment's notice according to the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I started out fist high in the 1960's 'cause all the books said to do so. Now my anvil is 2" higher than that. Some guys have overly long arms, so the knuckle idea is not going to work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluidsteel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I made it easy. I have two main shop anvils. One is knuckle height the other is wrist height. It wouldn't hurt to raise them both 1-1/2" each. I'm 6'2" tall, but with my long arms, my wrist/knuckle heights are the same as a 5'9" friend of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 A small anvil for lighter work can be much higher. My Hay budden is at traditional knuckle height. My flawless 70 pound fisher is a foot higher and is for fine work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For many folk, in-seam works out to a good height. It's a number most adults know without measuring and is usually knuckle height. (This one dawned on me because mine worked out to that exactly and then I thought about how often we hold work with our legs for punching, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Smith Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Mr. Turley are you suggesting there might be "knuckle draggers" among us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Smith Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Mr. Turley are you suggesting there might be "knuckle Draggers" among us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Mr. Turley are you suggesting there might be "knuckle Draggers" among us? Well, I am. But blacksmiths make sparks when they drag their knuckles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 im short ( as some here may have guessed ) I share a place with someone who is over 6 foot and likes his anvils very high. we have 2 anvils in the forge area, both are his, a old battered double horn that at a guess is near my waist high and a KL that is in better condition but higher. I mainly work on the old one but finish things on the better anvil. will measure the actual heights in the morning when im back in the shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 We had a fellow in our smithing club that was over 6'4"---he had a dedicated anvil just for his use as it was way too high for the rest of us. I try to have a variety of anvil heights for when I teach and discuss chosing the one appropriate for the person and the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Smith Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I guess I need a lesson on how to drag for sparks! All I get is blisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 L Smith, Yeah, I'm suggesting. Just look around, and you'll spot 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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