First time forging ANYTHING. Flat bit tongs

[Kelly R]

The forge isn’t completed yet but it is functional. But I couldn’t wait to try out forging for the first time. 
First I need to give credit to all blacksmiths that forge with a hammer, I was wiped out after making these which took about 3 hours (per side). This has only made me more impressed with what can be achieved. Definitely need to work on hammer control.

I think i wasn't heating the metal enough and i shouldn't have started with 3/4 round bar. Drawing out the reins almost killed me.  After watching more videos of smiths being able to do this in much fewer heats than it took me (1 heat to my 12 I need to do) and the metal seemed to moved so much easier than it did for me.

While trying to adjust the reins l noticed a small crack which I assume was because i didn't have them hot enough so l had to tack weld it on one of them.

Any advice, suggestions, point out the good, the bad and the ugly will be appreciated.

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

For a first set of tongs, you have hit it out of the ball park. Good job the second and subsequent sets will be easier.

[Goods]

Honestly, pretty amazing for a first forging! Your off to a good start.

The location of the crack is a very common location for a cold shunt when doing the set down behind the reigns. If you start to form the step, then offset the the step in the next heat an “over lap” can form. If you see this happen, file it out immediately. Continuing to forge out these “over laps,” or cold shunts, will usually end up in a crack or simply two separate pieces.

Keep it fun,

David

[Kelly R]

20 minutes ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

For a first set of tongs, you have hit it out of the ball park. Good job the second and subsequent sets will be easier.

Thank you! I’m sure it will get easier and understand it’s a part of the process.

[JHCC]

Very nice job -- and very good photos!

[Kelly R]

19 hours ago, Goods said:

Honestly, pretty amazing for a first forging! Your off to a good start.

David 

Thanks David for the advice.
I read briefly about dressing an anvil but haven’t done anything yet or looked into further. My anvil has sharp corners and apparently that isn’t desirable? Does this have anything to do with cold shuts? The first thing I did when I bought the used anvil was to grind the top smooth and squared off the edges. 

19 hours ago, JHCC said:

Very nice job -- and very good photos!

Thanks! JHCC

[Goods]

Now be careful say the word grind and anvil face in the same sentence here. It’s you anvil, do as you please. Keep in mind that most anvils have a hard high carbon face plate with a wrought iron body. Grinding the face can dramatically reduce its useful life. (There are also cast steel anvils, but the hardness doesn’t go that deep. It’s kind of hard to rapidly cool that much mass.)

Yes, the sharper the corner you are using to set down or draw material out on the high the change of getting cold shunts. If you have a small sharp step, when you forge the next section down  the steel will want to move in all directions, including over top of the step.  Having a radius in the step helps reinforce that area, stopping some of the spread back towards to step. (I hope that make sense to everyone else?)

If you are going to dress the edges back. Do a little at a time, you can’t really add it back, if you take too much off. (Did I mention that welding on anvil is another general “no no?” The previous owner of my Colombian anvil “repaired” the edges of it. He used Std MiG wire. Some chipped away from HAZ cracks, some just work hardened and started to flake away… it is kind of funny that I can dress some of the flaking issues with a file pretty easily. It can be done right, but that take money, time, knowledge and skill!)

(Not trying to be hard on you over the grinding, but others reading this may benefit from knowing.)

Keep at it! With this being your first go, I can’t wait to see progress pictures!

David

[gewoon ik]

Wow, nice job for first time. I have yet to make my first tongs

[Shainarue]

Those are great, especially for a first ever anything forge! My first ever anything forge was a flattened end of rebar, lol. My second was an ugly flattened bit of 3/8 round with a curled end. I'm not mentally ready to attempt the tongs, lol

[Frosty]

Beautiful tongs Kelly, especially for a first! You're going to be giving lessons in no time!

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

Nice job. Ought to do what tongs are supposed to do

[ThomasPowers]

Now for the "environment" questions: how heavy a hammer were you using and how tightly did you grip it?  Was the face well dressed?  When drawing out did you use the horn or a well rounded peen to speed it up?  Is that a steel anvil and how much does it weigh?  Did you concentrate your work over the sweet spot?

All items that can help make the job easier; hard to make it better than you did!

[Kelly R]

5 hours ago, Frosty said:

Beautiful tongs Kelly, especially for a first! You're going to be giving lessons in no time!

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks Frosty. Lol about giving lessons. I have far too much to learn still. Like hammer control. Sometimes I didn’t know which direction it was going to bounce back at. 

[Kelly R]

4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Now for the "environment" questions: how heavy a hammer were you using and how tightly did you grip it?  Was the face well dressed?  When drawing out did you use the horn or a well rounded peen to speed it up?  Is that a steel anvil and how much does it weigh?  Did you concentrate your work over the sweet spot?

All items that can help make the job easier; hard to make it better than you did!

To run through your questions. 
1. I used a 4lbs. to do most of the moving (choked up on the handle at times to get better control) and a 2.5lbs. trying to make things look smoother. 
2. I know the grip was too tight. I felt it in my forearm. I feel the handle is too thin for me. I’m going to change that. 
3. They are professional hammers that I bought but even using the flat (flatter) side it was hard to get thing flat. On the bigger hammer when holding a straight edge on it there’s only about 1” that is actually flat then it begins a bit of radius. The smaller has only a half inch of flat spot. Should there be more flat surface on these?

4.I did use the horn with the rounding side of the hammer when drawing out the reins. No peen. 
5. The anvil is a cheap used 100lbs with very little rebound. I have just put an order in for a new 155lbs 4140 hardened anvil. 
6. I did concentrate over the sweet spot until my arm turned into a spaghetti noodle and had a hard time controlling it. This was my first time doing this so I’m sure my technique needs a lot of work. 

7 hours ago, Shainarue said:

Those are great, especially for a first ever anything forge! My first ever anything forge was a flattened end of rebar, lol. My second was an ugly flattened bit of 3/8 round with a curled end. I'm not mentally ready to attempt the tongs, lol

Thanks. I’ve been mentally ready for a while now. But physically, it’s a task that I wasn’t expecting to be so difficult. You watch guys do them in videos and with only a few strikes they created the bit part and I’m at about 30 hits to get close to their results. 

[natkova]

I usualy dont hold hammer so tight.

If you grip it too tight your arm and elbow will hurt and i think hand too, but if you dont grip it att all it will fall off hand .

Find middle there is video on how to grip i think only two fingers need to  hold it thumb and index and other are just swinging by.

 

[Goods]

For final finishing use a lighter hammer at a low heat with over lapping blow. 2~3lb ranger is most common. I usually only use 4~6lb hammer for heavy forging, at high heats. I rarely even do that, it’s easier to hit hard with a lighter hammer than it is to control a heavy one. And a lot less tiring! There are those that regular use heavy hammers, but they are smiths who forge daily and have been doing it for years. Starting with a heavy hammer will lead to injury. Work you way up to it, your body will thank you!

For plannishing (smoothing) red heat down into the black. When you want to MOVE material reheat when it drop to a red range. When you are wanting to smooth your finish out, you only want the high points to move and only very little. With a light hammer, the psi is very high on the high spots, but as soon as they level out the psi goes up fast and is less likely to leave additional depreciations the need cleaned up. 

See if you can track down a local blacksmith group near you. Your off to a great start, but working with a couple experienced smiths with really speed up the learning curve. 
 

Keep it fun,

David

Edit: I type all this then reread you post, and I missed something at first.

[arkie]

Sometimes, it's difficult for a beginner to find the "right" hammer handle size and fit.  If the handle comes with store-bought hammer, the handle may be too thick.  Less, common is a thin handle.

If the handle is too thick, you will constantly be fighting to keep a good grip, resulting in fatigue.  If the handle is too thin, you will find yourself sort of wrapping your fingers around too tightly and the hammer might be trying to rotate on you.

With a thick handle, get a rasp or sanding disks and work down the thickness until it "fits like a glove" and you will be much happier (your hands, wrist and elbows will thank you, too).  If the handle is too thin, just get another handle that fits.

[Frosty]

I start people out on a 2lb. drill hammer, they're heavy enough to move steel well but light enough not to tire a person quickly or as likely to do joint damage. The shorter handle makes the hammer easier to control. I have one of mine on the ready  hammer rack every time I light a fire. I don't use one all the time but I rarely do a project it isn't involved in. 

I like rounding hammers, they're very versatile, I have a couple one I made with help from a broken Ford pickup axle and it's one of my favorites hammers. It has a sab handle that is slightly tapered outwards to the end which has a  knob. The knob is an artefact of me modifying a thing without having experience using it and it's purpose was to help prevent the hammer slipping out of my grip. The slight taper on the slab handle has never slipped at all in my almost fall out of your hand loose grip. The knob sort of turned into a signature so . . . <sigh>

The other pic is a straight pein that started life as a 32 oz. ball pein.

The handles are made of, 5/4", clear, straight grain, cabinet grade, hickory. The edges on the pein side is rounded, the edges on the face side are only rounded slightly for comfort. The more rounded edge allows a little theater at demos, I can spin the hammer in my hand overhead to change from face to pein by feel. Folks in the audience enjoy a little flash in the performance. The head on the straight pein is heavier on the face so rounding the handle wasn't necessary but it's become part of my handles so. . . 

Pic follows.

Frosty The Lucky.

,    ,

 

[Kelly R]

My hammer handles are more rounded and I see that yours Frosty have flat sides which probably make it easier to control. With mine, just after I strike, I do find that I need to readjust my grip because of turning in my hand (which is also why I’m gripping tightly). Also as I mentioned I find the handles were too small where my fingers wrapped completely around the handle with my finger tips are pushing into my palm. I’m definitely going to put thicker handles and flatten the side a bit. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

So as a farrier I have some specific ideas as to hammer handles. Flat sided as Jerry’s, small enough that your index finger almost to just touches your palm and long enough that when you cup the head in your hand the end of the handle reaches the inside of your elbow. 
so for the handle width, that is 1x1-1/4”. Round the front and back. 
as to grip, use your handle, don’t get in the habit of choking up. Yea I know all the cool kids choke up! Your pinky is over half your grip, use it wile the rest of your fingers progreso my relax. Learn the ergonomics of using a hammer, a 2# hammer can move a lot of metal if you raise the hammer fully over your head and aim for the foot of your anvil. 
as to hammer weight, I use a 2# most in my day job but my hammers range from 1-1/2 to   4#. Tho don’t really forge much with the 4#. I do have a 4# with a 30” handle for the wife to strike.

[Frosty]

A good friend of mine made a cross pein for me and it has a farrier's "whippy," long narrow slab handle. I liked about the first 2/3 of it but I already had a well developed strike zone so adjusting to a long handle was harder than choking a little. I really liked the slab handle though I know exactly what the orientation of the hammer face is side to side reflexively and it's WAY less tiring to use.

My tapered handle is an adaptation of Uri Hofi's slab handles, the knob is unnecessary but it's part of the template. The taper causes a reflexive tightening of the grip if the hammer shifts position at all and lets me use a very loose grip. My hammer pivots between my thumb and index finger and I close my hand on it just before the moment of impact and release it immediately after. The hammer recoils in my grip pivoting up and zero impact is conducted to my joints. If you do any spin casting it's very close to the same method. My strikes aren't whippy but they are snappy and les tiring.

If I try my grip on a standard hammer handle it's hard to keep it from turning in my hand so I end up using a more "standard" grip.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

I like a long handle thinned where it joins the hammer. Pretty much what Charles says above. This gives my hammer a nice action. I don't usually choke up to the head, but usually a few inches back. The distance back is really variable. I never grab at the back end of the hammer. For me, thats way out of control. I don't use the extra length as a brace against my forearm, I use the extra length as a counter balance for the balancing of my hammer head. 

[Kelly R]

Appreciate the tips everyone. 

[BillyBones]

Nice work for the first set of tongs. I wish mine would have turned out half as nice. 

If drawing out the reigns are tiring you out you can also go my preferred route of making tongs. I make the bits with a short piece of reign then use my stick welder to weld on the riegns. usually 1/2" round bar. That will get you workable tongs with out so much wear and tear on the arm until you build up stamina and hammer control. You could also forge weld them on which would be learning another skill of the smith if you desire. 

As far as hammers and handles go, i also like the slab handle. I am however one of the few that a store bought engineers hammer handle is a good fit for my hand.  My go to hammer is ~3# square face. I like the square face becuase i see it as 2 cross peins, 2 straight piens and 4 ball peins on the face along with the flat surface. I do use those type hammers but for quick adjustments i can angle my hammer and get what i need. Like for example if i am making a simple leaf and one side needs peined out a bit more rather than changing hammers i can just angle mine. Of course if i was doing heavy drawing out or a long section i will use a straight or cross pien. 

3 hours per side, so 6 hours total. That is not really that bad. Watching videos can be deceptive becuase of editing. 

[Kelly R]

Thanks Billy!