Shainarue Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I mounted the hooks to a plank of lumber last night at which point I noticed the two flat scrolled hooks are crooked! I tweaked and double checked tweaked more and double checked again before I painted them. I don't know how these managed to get past me. Embrace the imperfection I also decided last night to try and forge in the temporary shelter. I was hoping I'd get used to the slope. I didn't. If anything, it felt worse the longer I was out there. So I won't be forging the again until I've leveled the ground. Here's a pic from inside the shelter looking out. For reference, I tilted the camera until the light poles in the background were vertical. It looks like I took a crooked picture but it really is that sloped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Welded up a small swage-and-fuller set for the fly press. (The shim under the lower piece is to raise it up to the proper height; my press still doesn't have a working depth stop.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad J. Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Made a wine bottle and glass stake. First attempt. Riveted the bottle holder in place, punched the hole for the glass holders and used a piece of twisted 1/8 inch. I'm happy with it and know how my next is going to be done a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Got the "hot dog" welded to the "bun", all but one end. Took several heats, but it's stuck together. Was going to finish up that not welded end, but decided to clean up the fire first. pulled it apart, reached in with the hook and pulled. Fire fell out the ash dump, and grate turned up on end. Clinker had stuck it's self to the grate and when I pulled, grate, clinker, and all came out. Lost the fire, and need to re-install the grate. So, I'll do that tomorrow. Need another bag of coal anyway. Once I get the last bit welded, I'll work on drawing and shaping at, or very near welding heat, for the first couple of trips down the blade. Question for ya'll: When working a long bar, is it best to work from heel to toe, or toe to heel? (heel being the part you're holding) Or doesn't matter as long as the outcome is the same. I can only work about 3 inches at a time at welding heat. Something I didn't consider when I started this project is the loss due to scale on the outside. I'll continue to completion, but I'm afraid it may not work out as planned. The thought was that the outer layer is 1/4" high carbon steel, folded to make 1/2" (1/4 on each side) so the low carbon that I put in the middle, I made about 3/8" thick, at the spine, tapering to about 1/8" to fit the fold. As I was welding it together, I found that the outer layer seems to be getting thinner, while the inner is staying about the same. First time doing this, so I'll learn what not to do as I go. Anyway, I managed to get some hammer time in, and pulled enough clinker to pave the driveway. Borax makes lots of clinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 A couple pics of the project. End yet to be welded And what appears to be a cold shut at the end of the low carbon center. Also looks like a small issue at the very end, but I think that will be gone when it's finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 First off. NO do NOT work the part you are HOLDING at welding heat! High carbon steel is more susceptible to scale loss than low C but low C has a higher welding temp so you're overheating the high C every time you take a welding heat and losing steel. Were I to try this technique I'd make the center much thinner say 1/4" x 1/2" or 5/8". You are decarbing the stiffening out of your 1/4" buns waiting for the 3/8" center soaks. You have to approach it opposite of how you'd weld up a san mai billet. Fluxing the outside of the wrap is more important than the inside. You REALLY want to keep air off the HC wrapper. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Chad, i like that, gives me ideas. That would also give me a reason to visit the local winery. Blue, i would say it would depend on what you are doing. Like Frosty said i would weld starting at the toe the flip when i got a bit past the middle. Then work middle to toe, the toe being what started out as the heel. If drawing out i would work heel to toe. Did a bit of work for a new "boutique" in town. Started of with just a couple "J" hooks an a couple other things to test the waters. Here is one of the hooks, i kind of like the way they turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Frosty, Thanx for the info. Now I know the "why" of what Asian smiths do. Flux the outside between every heat. To limit the loss due to scale. And also their "bun" is pretty doggone thick, compared to the 'hot dog", now I guess it's to make up for the inevitable loss due to scale, even when fluxed. Very good info, thanx again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 You're welcome, it's my pleasure. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I am teaching a class on Sunday, so I need half a dozen pairs of 3/8” bolt tongs. Here’s the prototype; I’ll make the rest tomorrow. These are made from two 16” lengths of 1/4” x 1/2” flat bar, shouldered, tapered, twisted, bent, with the bits shaped on the fly press with the fuller & swage I made yesterday, and riveted. The first pair took about an hour, but I think I should be able to bring that down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Very good looking prototype if you ask me, could easily be adjusted to off-set jaws. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shainarue Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Billy, I really like that leafy J hook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 quick, and simple tongs. I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Brouwers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I might steal both the leaf J hook and John’s quick and easy tongs! That stuff looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Spent some time at the forge. And learned quite a bit. Thanx to Frosty, keeping the outside fluxed sure did help. What I learned is this: #1 making a "hot dog" with HC as the bun, and LC as the "dog" is difficult. two different welding temps, two different forging temps, but when finally figured out, can be awesome. (I don't have it figured out yet) #2 At the temp for easy moving of LC, HC wants to be too hot. (I developed cracks at the edge) On this particular bar, When I noticed the crack, I decided to quench, and snap it off, to see the internals. I heated it up just over critical, and held it there for a few minutes, then into the slack tub. Yep, it got hard, but I found that I'd missed the crack by an inch or so. No worries. Back in the forge, and paid close attention to the placement. This time crack was center of the heat. Slack tub again. Then tried to snap it off. Ain't gonna happen. The LC spine is doing it's job. Finally, after several hard strikes with the 5 pounder, I managed to break out a piece of the edge. The "heart of the blade" is clearly visible here. Here's the chunk that came out. It appears that a good portion of the weld didn't set properly. But looking at the spine, It looks to be homogeneous. And look at the grain structure where the chunk came out. You can see, it goes from nice and tight, to loose and grainy. I suspect that it's from the double quench in two different areas. and the overlap is the looser grain. Either way, it's a bad blade, but could be serviceable, in that, it would not break off. But could have chips come loose. Bear in mind, once I noticed the cracks, I decided to point harden, and point load it to destruction. It took several hits with the 5 pound sledge as hard as I could swing to get it to come apart, It never snapped off, It never bent, but would spring back. Yes, I will try again. But with a different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 18 hours ago, JHCC said: I am teaching a class on Sunday, so I need half a dozen pairs of 3/8” bolt tongs. Here’s the prototype; I’ll make the rest tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, What is the class? I would think that making those tongs would be a good lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 That's a beautiful leaf coat hook Billy, I really like it. Am I the only one here who puts 2 screw holes in a coat hook? Nice tongs John they look to be about the same basic tong I like to make from 3/8" x 3/4" stock. I have more ham handed friends I believe. Better luck next time(s) Blue, practice will get you there. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Frosty. no you are not. It depends on how the hook will look and the function to me. These i think look better with 1 hole so that it would look more like maybe a knot in the branch. That is what i was going for with the upset beveled end. Same reason i am not real concerned if it is a bit off center as well and bulges just a bit more to one side. I use a ball punch to dimple the bar the a straight punch to make the hole. I will the usually hit it one more time with the ball punch just to kind of clean up the edges of the hole. I will always do 2 holes in a coat hook that also has a hat hook above. They seem to go over quite well, i actually think i hit a home run with them. They take me about half hour to make and the longest part of that is the chisel marks. I am thinking of getting a veining tool to make them quicker and do them in the gasser so i can keep 6 or 8 bars hot at a time. Should be able to do about 4 maybe 5 an hour that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Finished the tongs. Not 100% happy with them, but it’s too late in the evening to do any more fiddling. 7 hours ago, bluerooster said: What is the class? I’ve got half a dozen total beginners coming over tomorrow. They will each make a bottle opener from 3/8” square bar. I also made a pointer to use during class, based on the one I saw Carl West using last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Also added a foot lever to my stock support/hold down, for hands-free operation. (This was made from a piece of molded cap rail that I’d salvaged from a handrail that got hit by a car, spoiling it for its original use.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davor Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 That is a nice hook Billy. JHCC that is a genius design, I was looking at it thinking how that lever looks funny how are you gonna hold it shaped like that. Then I realised that it is not for pressing down, that it holds it self. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I stole the basic idea from Kim Thomas, who has such a hold-down incorporated in his “chisel stand”. My innovations were to eliminate the work surface, make the height adjustable, change the shape of the hold-down from an upside-down “U” to a double “T” (thus allowing the stock to be moved in and out of the sides rather than being threaded in from the end), and (now) adding the foot lever. I also added a guide to keep the counterweight from swinging around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerooster Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I like that hold down/stock support. Is that a base from a gum machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 No, it’s from one of a pair of stands given to me by a friend. Not sure what the original use was, but they had 12” square steel plates on top. I still use the other one as a moveable stand for tools, moving it next to whatever I’m working on at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Pretty slick, thanks for the link John. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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