What did you do in the shop today?

[Shainarue]

8 hours ago, Frosty said:

cover your coal bunker (tote) with a sheet of plywood

Will do, thanks for the heads up! I will eventually have the various coals in 35gal steel barrels. Found some for $5/ea. Just need to make the time to drive out and get them. Until then, I'll get them covered. 

7 hours ago, Les L said:

Shaina, your slot jaw tongs look a lot better than the set I did 

I started with blanks from Ken's Custom Iron so I can't take too much credit, lol. I used them a bit tonight but after tapering, my stock was too small. I'll need to make another pair of tongs to use with the tapered small stock. Ashley requested that I make a bunch of shawl pins (aka pennacular brooch) for her spinning/knitting group so I'll be needing something better. 

Tonight I tried out a very basic one just to find the kinks I need to work out. 

#1: figure out how to loop the flat end of the pin. That drove me bonkers and while it is indeed finally on there, the inside of the loop is cornered rather than curved. I started by guessing about where the fold should be and smacked it against the top of the brooch arch. Then reheated and tried to do a loose curl on the anvil similar to how I do small scrolls. Except it didn't curl, it just bent. I tried holding the brooch on top of the flat part of the pin and then hammering upwards against the pin to curve around the brooch and that was a total failure. Brooch just bounced around and the pin skittered off. Didn't help that my tongs weren't right for the job. 

#2: feedback from Ashley that she loves the design but 3" is too big and too heavy for a shawl. And the pin is too thick. So next one I'll make half the size and taper the pin longer and thinner. 

So my next available forging evening will be to make tongs. Then another brooch. 

[George N. M.]

Shaina:  A couple of tips for making penannulars: 

(1) To make the eye get a pair of jewler's pliers.  They are like needle nose pliers but have round cross section.  They are basically mini scrolling tongs.  I usually center the eye on the pin rather than rolling it over into a P shape.

(2) Find a mandrel the right size, a piece of pipe, etc., calculate the amount needed to go around and cut off that length of stock plus  however much you need at both ends to make the spiral.  Mark the length of the spiral parts with a file or hack saw so that you can easily get them even.

(3) Demonstrate to the recipient or buyer how to use it.  The process is simple but not intuitively obvious.

"Penannular" means "almost a circle."  A circle is an annulus.  A doughnut or a ring is an annulus. "pen-" means "almost.  As in penultimate means almost last and a peninsula is almost an island ("insula" = island in Latin).

Penannulars date back to Roman times and were popular in Celtic Britain and Ireland and were used by the Vikings.  They are also part of traditional women's dress in parts of North Africa.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[Davor]

For hard to reach valves.

[Donal Harris]

Good idea there. As I get older and my belly grows larger, I find more and more spaces are tighter and harder to reach into. 
 

I’ve often thought that style of anvil with the sloped side would be handy, butdo you get by without a pritchel hole?
 

 

[Chimaera]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:21 AM, Melancholy Rivet said:

My brain interpreted it as a whimsically anthropomorphized knife, with a blade for a head and their hands on their hips!

haha, that's exactly what my brother said. Actually, verbatim it was, "Your tongs give very 'I'm not angry, just disappointed' vibes." It's definitely a confusing angle.

Billy, I like your knife. Padauk is one of my favorite woods, from its color to its workability to its smell. Only things better are burls. And maybe walnut.

Shaina, that's a beautiful brooch. I agree that it looks a bit big and heavy, but definitely a great proof of concept. Good luck on the smaller ones!

20 hours ago, Les L said:

Chimaera, I would grind a bevel 1/2way through one side, weld that side turn it over and grind the crack to clean metal weld, normalize then re heat treat and temper.

Les- I dont think I quite understand what you're saying. Do you mean something like this? Grinding both pieces to an angle so its not a straight vertical weld?

[ThomasPowers]

How about: ====\ lapped with \====.  I make a lot of Penannulars for the SCA and use heavy copper grounding wire---found a full untouched roll at the restore for US$5 once  with a Montgomery Wards tag on it.  (I remember MW going out of business when my Daughter who is now the Vet was a toddler!)

I have a set of needle nose pliers I use for the tight end bends; both for copper and steel.  Students get the talking to about using my non-ferrous cold work tools on hot steel and to ASK if they are not sure----I remind them that there are thousands of sq miles of desert out here waiting for a shallow grave(s).  And that the Yodel dogs need to eat too!

[Buzzkill]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:04 PM, Chimaera said:

Would it be possible to weld this final one back together? Even if not for use but just for decoration? Since it’s not in the blade I think it would work, but I’m not a welder

If just for decoration it's not a problem at all.  Clamp the 2 pieces to a board or something else flat that you can't weld to in the position you want to weld them.  Then use a grinder, file, etc. to cut a channel at the break so when you weld it you are filling in the channel.  Smooth out the weld then flip it and do the same thing on the other side.  Afterwards it's best to get the weld and the area near the weld back up around critical at least once with a slow cool afterwards (if you intend to use the piece) to eliminate the brittle effect in the heat affected zone that often accompanies a weld.

That method may be ok for using the knife as well, but personally I don't like short welds perpendicular to the piece if I want durability.  When I electric weld a tang on to a pattern-welded blade I will normally cut out a slot on one side and make a "tongue" on the other side that fits the slot.  This gives a much longer weld seam and it decreases the chance of a weak spot straight across the tang.   I then use the method described above for welding and usually  I do some additional forging to refine the shape before the rough grind prior to quenching.  So far I've never had a tang fail using that method, but I'm normally doing that method with full tangs rather than hidden tangs.  In your case I would probably cut the slot on the blade portion and then create a new piece for the tang to fit in the slot for welding.  Of course you'll have to repeat the heat treatment if you do that.

[ThomasPowers]

I've known a maker that would silver solder such breaks back together.  Hard solder with solder and flux designed to work with knife steels...

[Chimaera]

Buzzkill, I really appreciate your guidance and expertise.

[Les L]

Chimaera, make a 30 degree bevel along the length of the brake, on both pieces 1/2 the thickness. Put the two together, but leave a small gap, and weld that side them flip over and do the same grind on the other side, making sure you grind to clean metal on the first weld. I would follow the same process if using solder or brass. This will give you a 100 percent weld. Start your weld from the outer edge, weld to center, then go to opposite edge and weld to center to prevent a divot on the outer edge 

1 hour ago, Chimaera said:

Les- I dont think I quite understand

[BillyBones]

As i have gotten older i have discovered that someone keeps lowering the floor.

I love the smell of the Padauk wood. I have another, cant for the life of me recall the name, from S. America that smells good as well. Last Christmas i made my dad a gun rack and used Sassafras, that has a nice smell too. 

There is a place near me that is called "The Hardwood Store" and they sell hardwoods from all over the world. Everything from ash to zebrawood. Although some are in limited quantities being they are now endangered and have to be sourced from already cut woods like from barns and old buildings. So sometimes what you find today may not be available for a long time if ever again. You can buy small pieces there from 1/2" x 1" x 3" up to 12' long 12" wide 5/4" thick boards. 

[Shainarue]

3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

How about: ====\ lapped with \====.

I understand everything else you said except that part ^ ... maybe it wasn't intended for me?

15 hours ago, George N. M. said:

I usually center the eye on the pin rather than rolling it over into a P shape.

You mean like I did? Mine isn't a P-shape. It's more like it's folded over. (you might have to squint to see) I just wanted the 'folded' part to be more curved on the inside than it turned out. I think the needle nose pliers will do the job.
Or maybe you mean you punch an eye into the pin? I hadn't really thought of that option but I like it.

I wondered about using needle nose pliers but the few videos I watched to get an idea of what to do all had them just hammering it over like it was no big deal. Me thinks I was a bit mislead. I think I might have a pair of small needle nose pliers that could work. Ashley has a pair of jeweler's pliers but I'm not about to touch those to hot metal! (or even grab them with my grubby hands, lol)

 

Davor, that knob bar is a a great idea!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The next time you are in a hardware store check out electricians needle nose pliers. They have round jaws that electricians use to make the curl/eye on the end of wires. Steve may have a better name for them.

[Chimaera]

I think I understand now Les. Thanks for the help

[Donal Harris]

And much more durable than jewelry pliers. I broke my wife’s pliers twice before I learned should probably get a pair of my own and definitely stop using them on stuff too large for them to handle. I tried blaming it on the grandkids, but she didn’t buy it. 

[JHCC]

The New England School of Metalwork has a good video about making scrolling tongs:

 The first pair I made with this method was fairly small and has proven excellent for those little curlicues and eyes. 

[Goods]

JHCC, thanks for the link. Those have been on my list for a while.
It’s a very long list and scrolling wrenches haven’t become a priority yet, seem like what my wife wants take priority! (Keeps her happy and gives me more time at the anvil! Works out pretty good!)

Keep it fun,

David

[Shainarue]

Goods, my projects are the same - wife's requests come first!

JHCC - thanks for that link. I'm adding it to my Tools playlist. But for now, I'm gonna buy a cheap pair of electricians pliers. Wife wants these to put in with gift bags to her spinner/knitter friends so I don't have a lot of extra days to spend on making tools this time around. Already taking a day to make the tongs.

[BillyBones]

I have an old set of mig pliers that i ground the ends round on i use. They work pretty well. 

[Davor]

18 hours ago, DHarris said:

I’ve often thought that style of anvil with the sloped side would be handy, butdo you get by without a pritchel hole?

I made a thick bar with different hole sizes that I put over the hardy hole. 

[Frosty]

Shaina, Orifice hooks and doffers are good stocking stuffers for spinners. Below is the doffer I made Deb, I seriously underpriced them at $80, they were back ordered immediately. Then I was attacked by the great white . . . birch. 

Doffers are usually just a hook and handle and can be a fight to lift the wool on a drum carder. I made these so they slip easily between the wool and carder drum and instead of needing wrist strength to lift the wool these lever it up, either pushing down or lifting. I made a couple with twisted handles and the most popular were rope twist. That's a Yarn twist to spinners.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Shainarue]

That's brilliant, Frosty! I'm showing this to sweetie.

[Frosty]

I made a couple with leaf finials and turned them in a smooth curve downwards so you can push them easily or hook your finger in the leaf to pull easily. 

Show us pics please. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chimaera]

Flattened out some WI for guard material (thanks to JHCC), made a couple leaves, and took attempt 4 of a hidden tang. I feel good about this one. Waiting for a bandsaw belt so I can finish the handle. Screwed up a little on the grinding but overall very happy, it seemed to go well

[JHCC]

You’re welcome!