JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[ThomasPowers]

My parents and younger brother spent four years in Naarden back in the 1980's; I visited a few times.  A few terms "stuck"; klompen due to the onomatopoeia.

My Mother bought a pair of klompen for my toddler and till she outgrew them we could track her running through the house by the LOUD "pitter patter of tiny footsteps".

[jlpservicesinc]

So, nice thing about the shop setup.. the roof definetly kept the snow off out where the steel supply will be kept. 

Also there was no snow drifting into the front garage door area though the north side of the building still has frozen snow and ice stuck to it. 

Not a whole lotta work was done today.. (have a really hard time getting going with snow and cold)..  With this said, with the light fading I did move the large 12ftX12 metal sheet that will be the bottom portions of the foundation covering/siding in front of the shop for easy cutting. 

I'm hopeful tomorrow will bring inspiration and I might get the bottom panel cut for the front and around the bottom of the door.  The last side panel for the top will take some serious pep rally type stuff.  All else being equal I will work on the back door section that has the fume extractor pipe sticking through. 

5:08PM and pitch black all ready.. 

Tomorrow brings another day.. Maybe I'll be more spunky and get some work done.. After horses I have a hard time getting moving again..   Well unless it's stove time with the doggy.. 

Thomas that is excellent.. Better than bells I do believe..   I know a sheet metal worker who lived in wood clogs.. had them imported.. 

[jlpservicesinc]

So, opinions..   

I'm picking up the heater on Friday..  Right now it stands as a 125K btu unit.. Am I better off going to a 150k unit.

Also here are 2 garage doors in the running.. 

Haas model 814

https://www.haasdoor.com/commercial/800/index.html
 

Overhead door: Model 850

https://www.overheaddoor.com/thermacore-sectional-steel-doors-850

thermacore-ap-door-system-model-850.pdf

[arkie]

Jen, maybe you can squeeze in some time before you pick the heater to hit a few shops in your area for a quick Q&A as to what size heater(s) they use and how they like them (speaking only of your choice of heater type).  The price differential between 125 and 150 may be a budget buster....(just have to wear thicker clothing, LOL)

[George N. M.]

Jen:  I found a site that says to take your square footage, divide by 200, multiply the result by 6,000 to get the number of BTU heater you need.  I think you said your floor dimensions somewhere up the thread but I don't recall them.  That said, in Mass. I would error on the side of excess BTUs.  

I am using a 50k BTU salamander for my about 300 sq. ft. shop and it warms it right up very quickly.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[jlpservicesinc]

Arkie, George,  so when I talked with the guy from the main factory he suggested the heater runs all the time or close to it so it has less cycles on and off and why the reason the 125.. 

I just got off the phone with the distributor in Worcester  and we talked about heat cycles and on and off.  He then mentioned that many places will have it run all the time because they have a certain amount of heat loss they are making up for.. 

He then went on to say, that if I have the shop at 40 or 50 and want to get up to temp more quickly ( plymouth Volare vs  Road runner) then it's worth going up to the 150..  

The 125K puts out 82,000 btus on low (low being constant run) and the 150K puts out 100,000 btu's on low..   

So, i'm going with the 150K and if I need to shut it off while crazy forging or keeping it on the lowest setting on the thermostat thats ok..  

Better more then less..   (I'd rather be warm then cold).. 

Thanks guys... 

[Glenn]

You can have a minimum shop temperature, and a comfortable shop working temperature.   You will quickly figure out the actual temperatures you like for both, and the time interval to get from one to the other.

[jlpservicesinc]

For sure Glenn..  that is if I can ever get any local gas company to actually submit a quote.   The pressure over 0.5PSI freaks them out.. 
I might have to do something else like buy a tank outright and install it shady like.  As long as it has DOT and current stamps it should be ok. 

I did speak with the Town inspector and he is on board for the 25psi reg on the tank, and line to the building and then put a low pressure reg outside the building for the heater. 

The gas guys won't even return my phone calls.  

Anyhow, between the 11" of snow we got yesterday and the 18F temps it was a tough work day out there. 

I did manage to get the bottom section of metal cut and then figured out there is no top lip for it to mount to. 

So, then spent 15minutes trying to figure out a way that will both be pretty easy with materials on hand, offer the ability to insulate up into the newly formed area and make it strong and able to handle the stuff from entry and exit and foot traffic. 

It was cold enough today, that when I kneeled down to saw the 3/4" stone froze to my coveralls on both knees. 

Just before the snow storm I was able to clean up the area so there is room for the tank, the electric line run and organized all the items so they are well stacked. 

 

[Chris C]

Your facility is looking great Jennifer.  Happy for you.

I can feel you frustration.  When we installed a Rotational Molding machine in our business, it required a 10" Gas Main be brought to our building.  If a very close friend hadn't been a 40+ year employee and a true "higher-up" at our local gas company, we'd have never gotten it approved.  Hate it when bureaucrats don't "get" that you have to make a living! 

[jlpservicesinc]

In this situation it's the independent retailers.   They never deal with LP at a higher pressure than 0.5PSI.. 

So state code wise you "Can not" run a line with a higher pressure than 0.5psi inside a building unless it is sent to the engineer and then all the lines have to be welded and then either x ray or ultrasonic tested. 

If I do run solid socket welded pipe vs butt welded pipe then the joints only need to be magnafluxed. 

I own a magnaflux machine so thats not a problem.. 

The largest problem is getting the people to get onboard..   

I never do anything like the "normal" people do so it's a constant struggle and increases in time frame. 

Its kinda the same deal on the 400amp service to the building.  You have to justify why you need 400amps even if you won't use it..  But they don't want someone to dim the lights of the neighbors so in order to run larger motors like a 10HP they want a higher service.. 

It's very complicated in a simple way.  

[Chris C]

Even independents can operate like bureaucrats!   Still say they just don't "get" that you are just trying to make a living.

[Glenn]

Funny how they look at an empty building and can not see the amount of equipment that will be put in there over time.  YOU have a vision and are building toward that vision. 

I would like to see expressions when you show them rough blueprints of a full shop and where everything will go, with specs on the total electric draw of all machines running, and total gas draw with all the forges going.  

Your building a production shop AND a teaching school, not an empty building.

 

Plan B:

Purchase a large locomotive, scrap the undercarriage, and use the engine to generate electric for the shop.  Ask about back feeding any excess electric back into the grid. (grin)  Do not laugh, there is a blacksmith in Australia that powers the electrical needs of his shop and business with a locomotive engine.  Look behind hospitals and other businesses at the large engines they use to power their buildings when the power goes out.  They are set to auto start and run on demand.

Where do you think ships get their electrical power?  They generate their own.

Electric company wants you to think INSIDE THEIR BOX. Do not build a box, and everything is either an opportunity or a possibility.

[George N. M.]

Part of the problem for gas, electric, and water companies/municipal utilities is that they have sized and planned their systems with particular projected demands for various areas.  Then, if a large residential development that they hadn't planned for comes in or an industrial level user wants service it upsets their usage projections.  I have seen a development use up all the excess capacity for a particular area and the utility cannot serve any additional customers in that area until they do a major upgrade to that part of their system.

Also, building inspectors often don't know which code, residential or industrial, to use when there is an industrial type use in an otherwise residential or rural area.

Giving people something new or unusual to deal with often puts them outside their comfort zone and saying "No" is easier and more comfortable for them than trying to deal with something new and different where they might make a mistake or be gamed by someone.  That is why they may require an engineer or architect sign off.  It is a cover your hind quarters and transfer of responsibility situation if something goes wrong. 

Not an easy dynamic for a citizen/customer to deal with. 

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

[jlpservicesinc]

Glenn for sure.   I have to be selective really with how things manifest.  I'm just out of the center of town.. Literally 600ft from the main road..  what most would consider residential..  I've never had any complaints from neighbors and will usually ask them about noise or tree removal or really anything..  Also lend a hand when needed. 

This building chewed through all my resources money wise and still need to come up with another 20K before it is finished. 

That is a lot of money to save/spend so now will come down to what I can do vs  "Make do"..  I might just have to install the low pressure tanks/lines on the side of the building and deal with the 1000 gallon tank and HP line later. 

I didn't plan on offering gas forges as options till next summer or the year after anyhow because of the investment. 

Ideally my goal was to make the project whole as can be with my funds then that is it..  Sink or swim it's all up to the destination.    I won't spend anymore of my money once it has heat, electric and a front garage door. 

The school will have to pay for itself to be a school.  


George my heating inspector is all for the high pressure line to dead end outside the shop for future modification.. 

If I had unlimited funds none of this would be an issue.    I'd get a price and just say "come do it".   I don;t have that ability. 

Kind of stratigic buying..  More vs less kinda thing.   Sadly with the market it's a builders dream up here. 

In town here there are 100+ building permits pulled per year.   There is a main line just ontop of the poll out front with 2 insulators on it.  I think that makes it a 1000V line which isn't even tapped into..  Its energized just now used on the street yet. 

The paper work is interesting with the Electric company because of the fact they don't want to share the electric..  

anyhow, they want to know the largest electric motor, lights, heat..  General loads.  But it's interesting that they want the single largest motor.. 

Then there is a whole section about motor ratings and sucking to much power from the grid and them not being happy.. 

The information is a lot of whine..  And this is "Your responsibility".. 

From the poll to my place I need to install 600kcmill copper cable XHHW-2. 3 runs of it. or 2 with a smaller ground/neutral.  I'll know more once the job coordinator gets back to me. 

10.00 per foot plus shipping. 

I called the Garage door company (cloplay) and they referenced Homedepot as a distributor so waiting to hear back from them too. 
 

[ThomasPowers]

Motor loads are inductive and mess with power factor so they do make an electric company sit up and take notice.

Nice to see the snow OUTSIDE the shop!  I had 3 friends forging in T shirts this afternoon, with the 10'x10' roll up door up and the open gables...we can see snow on the mountains; good place to keep it in my opinion!

[jlpservicesinc]

Thomas, You can come and take all of it away. Snow that is. I'm not a fan.. 

Just makes everything harder..   

My normal work as well as everything else I do..  

On a fun side I do like snow and the opportunities it presents and if I worked inside all the days and had nothing to do but have fun in it, I would feel differently. 

And yes for sure snow outside..  I did have to melt some snow that came in from the last big storm so had the IR propane tank mounted heater behind the grey panels..  I washed them up to get ready for insulation. 

We usually have a little warmth between snows so things melt a tad.. Not this time.. Another 4" today. 

I'm still figuring some of the building stuff out. I have to install the upper door trim and then install some rear supports to screw to.  The door frame is a little narrow for the installation of the metal siding and trim, so had to learn where to screw. 

Anyhow, one step at a time..  And I would have loved to been forging in t shirts and complaining about it being to hot. 

Another 4 months to go till "Warm" is a thing again. 

 

[JHCC]

1 minute ago, jlpservicesinc said:

if I worked inside all the days and had nothing to do but have fun in it, I would feel differently. 

When I lived in Vermont, I noticed that none of my logger friends ever went skiing, nor did any of my skier friends ever do any logging.

[jlpservicesinc]

LOL.. For sure..  I always enjoyed the winters especially for the martial arts diversity the winter offers..  

Still do, but everything is wet once the snow comes..  I don't mind dry and cold..  But once you add snow into the mix everything becomes wet and cold.. 

That photo of the pants is frozen snow with stones frozen on too. 

 

[Steve Sells]

Randori on a snow pile can be fun

[jlpservicesinc]

Sure can.. Ice too.   Ice training is a fundamental few ever actualize.  

Its interesting when people can no long push with their legs vs proper movement..   LOL.. 

[JHCC]

I did forms training on an ice-coated basketball court once. That was fun!

[Steve Sells]

one of the things we teach is walking with both legs rather than the normal push off with rear, but adding the pull with the front leg is weird on ice

[ThomasPowers]

In Geology I learned to walk on talus slopes---loose rock  where any step may send the rocks sliding down slope.  Very odd movement a sot of "step without stepping".  (Or stepping without committing your weight to the step.)

[jlpservicesinc]

Its interesting when people can no long push with their legs vs proper movement..   LOL.. 

Thomas that is how Ninja are taught to walk all the time. 

The hand to hand stuff while important the ability to move quickly, silently (as close to) and observe subtle changes all at the same time is a major. 

Today Taijustu or hand to hand is of major imprtance..  There are hundreds of skill sets.. So many more don't involve fighting at all. 

[SLAG]

Fellow Smiths,

In the middle ages in Europe and Great Britain, folks walked with the front of their feet contacting the ground first, and the hind parts secondly. (with the weight bearing  ...)

Which makes sense as most shoes, of those times, did not have a built up heal.

This style of locomotion was deduced, (fairly recently), by studying the illustrations of martial arts books. especially sword handling primers, of that era.

Striding in that fashion makes walking almost silent.

Regards to all,

And happy holidays,  coming soon.

SLAG &   Marg,

 (the marvelus).