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Damascus with only hand hammers?


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I have hammers from 1 pound all the way up to a 30 pound Monster Maul (not technically a hammer but serves as one) and would like to try making a damascus knife or hammer. I’ve never tried damascus before as I’m fairly new to forging. My question is this: is it possible to do any sort of damascus with only hand hammers? I’m a broke high school kid and can’t afford a power hammer. Any input is appreciated, thanks. 

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Fairly new being over 1000 years for a water powered triphammer forging wrought iron; but pattern welding does go back centuries before then.  HOWEVER early shops were NOT a one person shop, 3 to 5 people was about the minimum.

BTAIM most of my pattern welding has been done by myself with a hand hammer. I like Bandsaw blade and pallet strapping as I can start with 20 to 25 layers and so save a couple of welding runs to get to the layer count I want.

Remember that pattern welding does not necessarily mean bladesmithing---it can be used for other things as well!

May I commend to your attention the section of National Geographic's"Living Treasures of Japan" dealing with the forging of a Katana by hand power; you can find it on youtube.

Now I assume that since you want to do pattern welding you are skilled at forging and have all the basics down and are good at forge welding; Or is this a "I want to win a Formula One race; how do I start the car?" post?

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Practice forge welding until you are comfortable with the process. Comfortable as in can make GOOD forge welds every time. Them start forge welding low number stacks into billets. 

Practice means doing EVERYTHING right EVERY time. That is cleaning all surfaces of the metals, figuring out that no flux is needed, flux is not glue, to the right temperature for the metal and etc. 

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I did it with a hand hammer, and never again. It's a LOT of work. Mainly stretching that billet again and again after each fold. And all "just" for the aesthetics.  I"m glad I did it, and I encourage you to. It's a great project and "badge". But know that it take plenty of elbow grease.  If you can afford the steel and time, I say go for it. Just be sure to keep checking the integrity of your welds, like by hitting on the diamond.  Start with at least double the steel you need.  Thick plates and thick billet are your friends.  The first weld, of the multiple thin layers, is the hardest.

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Yes it is possible, and remember that you don't necessarily have to fold to a high layer count to get an impressive pattern. A tight twist of 10 or so layers can be very striking or 3-4 bars welded together of low layer twists (I use 7 layers) alternating the bars clockwise/anti-clockwise twist can produce great chevron patterns for relatively little effort.

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16 hours ago, JHCC said:

How DO you start a Formula One car?

With a key, one assumes :P

Pretty much covered already. I do all my pattern welding by hand and it takes a lot of effort, like lyuv said, but i find it to be rewarding. From barstock to blade ready for the grinder, i would say it takes me between 4-8 hours, depending heavily on the layer count. And that whole time im either turning my blower or swinging a hammer. So its quite labor intensive. If you have a friend who could act as a striker, it would be helpful.

 

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18 minutes ago, Will W. said:

With a key, one assumes :P

I don't know -- the whole point of a key is to keep people from stealing the car and driving off, which seems unlikely in a Formula One setting. 

I have a couple of friends who race -- I'll ask them.

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22 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

on/off switch,  and many dont have a starter

I used to work for a sprint car racing team as their welder (frames were tubular chrome-moly, not fun to weld) and i used to help during races too, changing shocks, gears, etc. With those cars, you have to push start them (we used a 4 wheeler) for this same reason, starter would add too much weight. 

Johnathon, i always grind the teeth off when i do it. Im sure you could leave them on too, but i have found it results in better welds and less hassle at the forge. Also, just use one stack. If you stack two billets and weld them like i think youre thinking, side by side, any direction you hit the billet will be putting shear force on a weld, or multiple welds. It can be done, but its pretty advanced stuff. Keep it simple until you get it down pat. 

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21 hours ago, JonathonCrow said:

When using bandsaw blades, which I have a multitude of, do you grind the teeth off prior to putting them in your billet? And do you stack the straps and blades in one stack or two stacks side by side to get a wider billet?

I've done it once, so BY NO MEANS an expert. But I stacked the alternating layers with the teeth up, welded a handle on one end, annealed it then took an angle grinder to the teeth and made the whole surface that had the teeth flat. I did not cut & stack or fold to increase layers, just twisted it after welding and drawing out. 

 

pics here 

 

 

Also one pic not in that post, this is the side with the teeth ground off. IMG_7698.thumb.JPG.65df3795ab07bd4b8a360ea3a9d7e520.JPG

 

I imagine ThomasPowers has done more BSB/PS than anyone else though. 

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I've done a few pattern welds, and I only have hand hammers.  It can be done, but is an absolute bear to draw out when over 1" diameter... I would keep it 3/4 and below in the cross section.  I like bandsaw/strapping damascus, I do it by first grinding the set off the teeth and grinding the black coating off the strapping.  I did a fluxless weld on it with my latest billet and it worked well. 

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As everyone has stated, yes, it can be done. I do it several times a year and even using every tip/trick it is still a lot of work! I get 15N20 from Jantz. They sell it in a thickness of .049 I also mill my 1095 down from .125 to .075 so I can get as many layers as possible in a relatively small stack. Still when it comes to drawing out it's a lot of hammering! If you're doing it for the first time stick with a low layer count and a simple twist pattern. I think every smith should do it, be able to do it, but if you ever plan to sell your work you will have a hard time lining up customers who want to pay for your time and the fact that it was "hand hammered". If you're doing it for yourself or friends and family and there is no need to be profitable then go for it. Power hammers and belt grinders wont produce anything beyond the skills of the person using them but they make production fast enough to be profitable. As a hobby smith all you need is a fire, hammer and anvil, some files and a vise and this website! Joining a local blacksmithing group that meets regularly can propel you forwards faster than you would think. Make sure whatever your doing is safe and then forge ahead. There is no substitute for "doing". Good luck!

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Nobody has mentioned the oil or coolant heaters required to start an f1 car. They won’t run cold. They need to have hot oil and coolant pumped through them to get them up to temp and have clearances open enough to run. 

Like the old time shops being for more than one person, nobody has driven an f1 car without extensive support for a very long time 

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Bandsaw blade has a bit of inherent curve in it. I take a piece of pallet strapping, place the BSB on it, pallet strapping, flip the next piece of BSB end for end so the teeth are on the opposite side but the curve is the same. etc.  I don't grind off the teeth they scale off pretty fast if you are doing a number of welds. (May work better for you starting out to grind them to have good clean tight billets)

To get more width: start with a taller stack and hammer it wider; or what I do is to use wider BSB and wider pallet strapping. 1" is pretty easy to find in both materials. I have BSB up to about a foot wide but can't find pallet strapping for that and have to cut the mild steel to fit---but of course in that size you HAVE to have "More Power!"

IIRC Manfred Sachse has done a one metric ton billet before...I believe I saw it in his book "Damaszener Stahl".

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This goes a little off topic and is longer than necessary but give it a shot.

I've been hammering steady for 2 years and didn't attempt patterning until 18 months in as it definitely takes a clear understanding of forge welding. You most certainly can do it without a power hammer but be prepared to hammer your balls off. Literally, they might fall off. 

Tip: line up a few buddies for the day and use them to assist in hammering. BE SURE EVERYONE WEARS SAFETY GLASSES! I don't know what your experience is with forge welding but things have a tendency to fly at that heat.

Everyone should do it at least once. As mentioned before it's a good accomplishment to put in the toolbox.

Again as someone else mentioned, paying clients don't seem to care if it's "hand hammered" and can't seem to fathom why a hand hammered piece is 10x more expensive than a production run. They just want it to look pretty. 

If you ever get to the point of selling your work you will come to realize that only a slim few are willing to actually pay you for your time and effort. A friend once asked for a machete to assist him in clearing right of ways for power lines... After I priced it up for him ($110) he threw a fit and bought a Chinese one for $6.99 on Amazon. My best advice in this regard for you, being as you are young, is to develop your own unique style. Your work will speak for itself but your style will tell the story. Make it a good one.

Anyway, the last billet I patterned was 112 layers. It's been sitting idol ever since as I can't decide if I want a hatchet, hammer, a knife or two, or a paper weight :/

Good luck!

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Dave, sounds like when my brother asked if I could forge him a gransfors bruks style splitting maul. I told him the $170. To buy theirs was a bargain and would be better then even at least the first 20 I'd attempt to make.  I might give it a shot one day when I have a power hammer. ;) 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Daswulf said:

Dave, sounds like when my brother asked if I could forge him a gransfors bruks style splitting maul. I told him the $170. To buy theirs was a bargain and would be better then even at least the first 20 I'd attempt to make.  I might give it a shot one day when I have a power hammer. ;) 

 

 

My power hammer days are well off in to the future. Perhaps when I retire I will treat myself to a proper shop and all the big boy tools. Of course, I would still charge high for my work to pay for the power hammer so I guess that leaves me in the same spot I am now.

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