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I Forge Iron

Safety glasses for forging...


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To me, safety equipment should be like pencils or a ruler/tape measure...placed at every work station so you don't have to go looking for it.... and yes.... regretfully, I've had metal dug out of my eye with the optical dremel. NOT FUN!
BE SAFE

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  • 1 month later...

I don't know a thing about eye surgery but I can say that I use more care and precision when gutting a deer than that DR looked to be using on that eye.

Safety awareness and equipment is so much better today than it was even just 10 years ago, regretfully that is why I'm in the situation and condition that I am.
And 20 years ago it was practicly non existent as compared to today.
Don't get me wrong, I still think some of the stuff that goes on in today's "safety crusade" is completely overboard but most of the time it's better to "over do" than "under do".

welder19

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  • 2 weeks later...

I will be doing some forge welding and looking for some eye protection.

I found these on the Fastenal website : http://www.fastenal.com/web/products.ex?N=999600985

Can anyone comment on which, if any of these, are suitable ?

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Reverse engineer the problem.

Safety glasses are designed to protect the eyes against injury from accidental flying dirt, debris, etc.

A full face shield is designed to protect the eyes and face if you are in an environment where you know there will be flying dirt, debris, etc. Wear the full face shield AND safety glasses.

I will be doing some forge welding and looking for some eye protection.

You expect to be working near and looking at the high intensity light of the forge. You expect to have flying sparks, debris, etc. You expect to be in an area where eye protection is always needed.

Welding lenses, goggles, glasses, etc of a shade #3 or so are designed to protect the eyes from the IR UV associated with gas welding, as well as provide a shading to the intense light. They are also designed to protect the eyes from flying debris. Knowing there will be flying debris, you should also use a full face shield is designed to protect the eyes and face if you are in an environment where you know there will be flying dirt, debris, etc.

Contact your welding supplier for the proper welding lenses for your application. I use the shade #3 because it provides protection AND is still lets in enough light so I can see to move around the shop. YMMV. The welding supplier also has a full face shield that is shaded for gas welding. Ask them for details. BE CERTAIN to insist on the proper shade as well as the IR and UV protection, not just a really cool set of expensive sun glasses.
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I’ve been reading a knife/sword making book and the author recommends DIDYMIUM Glasses.

Like these: http://www.visionarysupplies.com/store/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=409


We've been over this subject -- what kind of eye protection to wear while forge welding -- on a couple different forums that I frequent in the past few years, and have never reached what I consider a completely satisfactory answer.

That said, I'm not convinced that didymium is really especially useful for smiths; in fact I think if you're not careful it may be counterproductive. Didymium blocks the "sodium flare" of bright yellow light caused by sodium in molten glass. But even assuming that forge welding produces similar wavelengths of visible yellow light for the didymium to filter out, the fact is that the sodium flare is mainly an annoyance and an inconvenience; apparently it's not really harmful.

More importantly, at least some didymium glasses apparently block almost nothing other than the bright yellow visible wavelengths: this seller specifically says, "More of the Didymium (we carry 202ACE) standard glass workers glasses, blocks bright yellow flare, but not much UV and no IR." That's a problem! IR and UV are the wavelengths that do the damage! If you have a pair of those glasses and you're assuming they'll protect you from all the nasty invisible wavelengths coming from your forge fire, I think you're asking for trouble.

AFAIK normal smithing fuels emit little ultraviolet, but they spit out lots of infrared. So it looks to me like standard didymium glasses may actually be counterproductive for forge welding using common fuels, in that they create a false sense of security and keep your pupils fully dilated, without blocking the harmful wavelengths that you're probably actually encountering. As best I can tell you want glasses that block IR, and ideally UV. Anything beyond that is basically gravy.

Somewhere online I once found some OSHA standards for eye protection in industrial settings. For the closest situation to forge welding that I could find, the recommended minimum was something like a #2 or #3 welding lens, just like Glenn recommended.
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I use Shade 5 welder glasses with side shields, they work well at preventing eye burn, and of course flying bits. In forge welding you also have flying flux to consider, and this should temper your own personal decision on what to use.

The first glasses in the list on the link you provided would be MY personal choice.

You may however need to make adjustments in your shop lighting so your immediate work area is bright enough so that you can see your work when it is out of the fire.

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Several years ago (long enough I no longer have the appropriate links saved) I looked into this very question. I went out and looked at physics pages and eye damage related pages to see what wavelengths were problematic. I looked up various optics and the transmittance and absorption data. I looked at OSHA regs. I spent a couple of weeks looking around.
My conclusions are that a forge fire emits a lot of visible light which our eyes are designed to handle, some UV light most of it in near UV, which causes some damage but not real worry some, and enough IR in potentially damaging wavelengths to be a real concern. Furthermore, the standard polycarbonate lenses block sufficient UV so any polycarbonate lens or shield takes care of the UV part of the spectrum. IR then becomes the concern. That means you'll want to bind something that is rated to block IR. You'll also want something that will protect you against flying flux, scale and all of that.

My solution was to get a shade 3 (and for when I was someplace brighter a shade 5) face shield available at my local welding shop for a bit under $40 each. Both are rated for IR and UV protection and flying debris.

ron

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A number of years back, I tried didymium glasses and all of my heats looked the same color, a kind of odd purple/magenta blend. I couldn't recognize the welding heat. It's true that didymium lenses just get rid of sodium flare, the thing that makes the fire yellow.

I wear prescription glasses and have been forge welding for 47 years (not steadily!). I think I'm OK, healthwise. Face it; looking at a coal fire sweet spot is not like looking at an electric arc. A couple of times, I think that I may have received a mild eye burn when I've welded over and over for one half a day or longer.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

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Face it; looking at a coal fire sweet spot is not like looking at an electric arc.


That's certainly true. I've heard that old time blacksmiths had a tendency to develop cataracts later in life. But even if that's true, they were full-time professionals -- and I gather that even among them this was only a problem for the minority. So the risk is probably quite low for hobbyists and part-timers, even without shaded lenses.

OTOH, some people smoke for decades and live into their nineties; that doesn't necessarily mean we should all try it. ;) Some folks are more risk tolerant than others.
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It iss very true that looking at a forge is not the same as looking at an arc.

Arc does UV damage, forge does IR damage and so glasses that are good for one are NOT good for the other.

I have a friend that is an ophthalmologist and ophthalmological surgeon who had a long talk with me about forging. He said what I have to beware of was "Glass blowers cataracts" rather than UV cataracts. What I have done is tried to train myself not to stare in the fire for long periods but to take quick looks as evidently the damage is more long term cumulative and as a hobbyiest I haven't had near enough time at the forge!

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I got a pair of didymium glasses maybe 20 years ago and after giving them a fair try haven't used them since. They did little to make seeing in the fire better, even when borax is burning yellow. I would've given them away but it's fun to watch glass blowers at the fair wearing them.

Both UV and IR are largely blocked by glass though some IR does pass so don't stare into the fire. I wear poly carb bifocals with side shields. If I'm going to be doing something that puts junk in the air I put on a face shield too. Heck, since I've been getting back into the shop as I recover I've been wearing my hard hat with hearing protection to ease Deb's concerns. It wouldn't be unreasonable to buy a hard hat with a visor too and better yet you wont get any HOT things falling in your hair or down your neck.

Frosty the Lucky.

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  • 3 months later...

So, I'm a newbie to smithing (Zero experience: still in the process of setting up my forge and anvil) and I want to make sure I educate myself thoroughly on forging safely before I ever fire up the forge for the first time.

I've come across a couple of posts that mention using safety glasses that protect against UV rays from the forge AND coming off of the hot metal...I never considered that could be a danger. I've gotten a decent sunburn from welding in short sleeves and now I always wear leathers when welding, but I had no idea UV rays were a danger from the forge.

I'm a big fan of PPE and I DO always wear safety glasses while working in the shop (hearing and respiratory protection too when appropriate). I guess now I'll have to buy new safety glasses and make sure they protect against UV radiation.

Are there any other little-known dangers associated with blacksmithing that some of you who are more experienced would like to share to help keep me out of trouble?

-Jason

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UV is not a danger from a blacksmith's forge *IR* infra-red is the danger, (see "glassblower's cataracts").

Unfortunately so many folks come into smithing from welding that they keep thinking about UV and are not aware of IR!

It turns out that lenses good for UV may NOT be good for IR and so many people have a false sense of security with their PPE.

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As an industrial safety guy, who has worked big industrial forge shops, I can offer that standard shade 4 green safety glasses are the standard for "Heaters". The heater is the guy that tends the forge, placing cold billets into and pulling hot billets out. Most of our hammermen, and press operators went for shade 3, since they pretty much only see the billet, not looking into the incandescent forge interior.
Get Polycarbonate glasses and get the UV filtered naturally.
If you wear prescription safety glasses, A,O. Safety makes a nice flip up, industrial quality shade 4 clip on.

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Wow, thanks! Good to know about the hazards of IR.

Mr. Powers, you're right, I was concerned about UV and hadn't even considered IR...I've been surfing the web and it's actually pretty difficult to find IR protective lenses. I prefer to wear safety goggles for some processes since they offer superior side-impact protection, but so far haven't found a goggle that offers adequate IR protection...other than the old style welding goggles and those are probably a shade 11 and not useful for forging. Any suggestions?

Any other "hidden dangers" I should know about going into this?

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Dydidium is a good place to start your searching. My Forge pair of glasses are ROSE ONE filtered, there are about 8 different variations of the dydidium available now. I talked to my eye Dr during an exam, and he asked what temps I am dealing with, and sugggested the rose 1 filter, over the basic Dydidium. Hope this helps.

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Thanks all,

I definitely will be getting some sort of eye protection for IR.

Here's a couple more questions: I read a post somewhere that mentioned IR coming from the hot metal too...is this also a hazard, or would I be safe if I looked at the workpiece using clear safety lenses?

Also, does IR present a danger to bare skin like UV? I've gotten a decent sunburn while welding (UV) with short sleeves...

Thanks again!

-Jason

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