Should I get a training anvil for blacksmithing?

[SupaConducta]

I want to get into blacksmithing by learning on small projects and then getting into knives, and hopefully in a few years or decades become skilled enough to make historical weapon replicas and locks.  I am wondering which way I should go for a first anvil. There isn't much in way of classes close to where I live, and it always seems like they meet ups and hammer-ins happen on days where I don't have the time to drive 3-5 hours to get to them, so at the moment I'm on my own.

I can splurge and have my eye on a new Refflinghaus #56 - 110 lbs. BUT I have no clue what I'm doing - so will I destroy it? Are these creme de la creme anvils more like a Lamborghini or Volvo?  Are they durable enough for a clumsy guy to beat on and still be in good condition to make skilled work after I pay my dues? 

I've read lots of reviews in this group about how wonderful they are from experienced smiths, but are they appropriate for a beginner fumbling about trying to make nails and roses?

Would a better choice be to go with something like a Kanca, which is about 1/4 of the price and they quality seems to be hit or miss, so I won't be too sad if I miss a bunch and chip the edges and dent the top?   I don't like to spend money twice or buy things that lose value quickly. If something like a Refflinghaus or Peddinghaus will hold up forever, I would rather go with them, then to buy something inexpensive, just to destroy and need to replace it because of my incompetence.  

I look forward to seeing your thoughts on which way I should go.  Thank you. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Get a chunk of scrap steel to start with, and if you decide to stick with this craft, get the anvil you want.

 

[Stash]

If you're just starting out from scratch, you might do well to look in the improvised anvil thread. You can get a perfectly good, usable anvil for as little as scrap price or even free. Just a lump of steel is what has been used for the bulk of the time we bipeds have been beating on iron. You have great ambitions and plans right now, but what if you got a nice Refflinghouse and decided smithing isn't for you? (Well, you can sell it). Start with an improvised anvil ( yes- it IS an anvil, even if it doesn't look like something Wiley Coyote would drop on Roadrunner.) And it looks like Biggun beat me to it using less words. So that's 2 votes so far for improvised.

Steve

[LeeJustice]

You don't have to have the London pattern anvil, for that matter, an anvil at all.  There is a good section somewhere on here covering improvised anvils (I could not find it quickly to put a link for you).  Just a hunk of steel is suitable to be able to pound on hot metal.  Even a sledgehammer head, really.  Poke around some.  I have obtained some forklift tines for my improvised anvil, just not quite there yet myself.

[ThomasPowers]

You could start even cheaper than that;  it's the skills you need not a fancy anvil.  After 40 years of smithing I have started bringing an 81# rectangular chunk of steel to do demo's on, (5"x5.75"x10"), works a treat for everything from S hooks to pattern welded billets and cost US$16.20  at the scrapyard.  Note that a "cube" anvil has been in use over 3000 years while the london pattern is under 300 years.  I currently own 8 London Pattern anvils and a couple of other types; but want folks starting out to see that they are NOT necessary!

My suggestion is to start cheap and look around for a great deal on the anvil you *want* used.  I had a friend who ended up buying a NIMBA for 1/2 price that way. Do NOT buy a cast iron ASO at a store!!!!!!!

[Frazer]

9 minutes ago, LeeJustice said:

(I could not find it quickly to put a link for you)

Here you go.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/52308-a-collection-of-improvised-anvils/

I used a piece of steel from the scrapyard when I was first starting. I beat the daylights out of it while learning hammer control. Start with the basics and buy new tools when you have a better grasp on what you need and what you don't.

[Glenn]

As Big Gun Dr said, get a piece of scrap steel and get started.  Reading about the improvised anvils in the anvil section of the site will give you many ideas.  The more you read the more your skills will improve and the less expensive things become as you know what to look for and an idea of the cost of the tools. 

3rd world blacksmiths make their living on improvised anvils, such as a piece of steel, a sledge hammer head, etc. and a hole in the ground for a forge.

[LeeJustice]

I figured Fraser would be the one to pop in with that. 

[SHC]

Dang this thread sounds familiar!

SupaConducta, I posed just about the exact same question in my first post just recently. There is a difference though. While I just joined this forum and I’m still a total noob to blacksmithing, I’ve been beating on a harbor freight cast iron anvil and piece of rail while lurking on this forum for a little over a year. So I did note the advice given, but didn’t really follow all of it. That harbor freight anvil worked just well enough to convince me I want to do this long term.

I can afford to splurge a bit too, just ordered a Holland anvil today and I expect I’ll love it. I know it’s way more anvil than I need right now, but like you, I hope to progress. I don’t intend for this to take the place of my day job, I like it too much and it pays too well to just walk away from it, but I do hope to be pleasantly occupied during my retirement.

 

 If I were in your shoes, I’d probably have taken the advice given as the gospel. I hope no one here takes it as disrespect that I didn’t. 

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

No disrespect taken here. I'll paraphrase Glenn, 1000 hours on a 100 dollar anvil will make you a better smith than 100 hours on a 1000 dollar anvil. If you have a heavy equipment repair shop or scrap yard near, check with them, bulldozers are made from anvils. This counter weight cost us $35 and we use it just as much as our 3 other London pattern anvils.

I even made a little bick for it out of a piece of sucker rod.

[Rojo Pedro]

The biggest thing I would miss from my anvil would be the hardy hole which could be improvised. 

I would buy an anvil if I were you. You wont be able to ruin it and all the marks and dings you put on it will be yours plus you will have all the function of a traditional anvil to learn on. 

Not to mention the cool factor and having a tool that could be in the family for many generations. 

My 2 cents, your thousand dollars or so :-)

[Frazer]

15 hours ago, LeeJustice said:

Fraser

That's Frazer, with z.

[yt12]

Supa----

Some minds wiser than mine beat me to the punch--if--IF --your biggest concern is "damaging" your new buy----get a hunk-0-junk-piece-o-scrap to ease into things.

However at the risk of ruffling a few feathers (i seem to have a habit)-----dont over think it---if you can afford the real deal and want one----BUYIT!!!---the things are made of steel ----most damage can be avoided as you learn---missed blows--missed blows on the edge--windmilling a huge sledge----GO FOR IT !!

[SupaConducta]

Thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate everybody who has taken the time to respond so far. 

 

[LeeJustice]

My humblest apologies Frazer. 

[Frazer]

No problem, happens all the time.

[Goods]

All, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Refflinghaus anvils know to have pretty hard edges? Could lead to pretty significant chipping if a new blacksmith hasn’t yet developed hammer control… Just something that should be kept in mind.

[SupaConducta]

Off topic on my own post but it's pretty cool to be meeting so many people on here already! How's the Rock treating you Frazer?  I went to RIT about 20 years ago and afterwards I was the stage manager at the Downstairs Cabaret for a year or so before I headed down south to SHC's territory. I woke up one day and had 4 feet of snow covering my car and nothing on the road so I had to go to work.  I said xxxx this I'm heading south, packed and left.  I was thinking about heading up there this spring to go to the lilac festival.  

 

 

 

Thanks, Goods.  That's what I was worried about.  I'd rather get something cheaper to abuse. I was pointed towards the way of Atlas anvils, and since they're a solid block with little shape, they look like I can send them out to be machined pretty cheap if I destroy it or if I want it cleaned up to sell.

[SupaConducta]

Irondragon that looks like a nice setup.  A few weeks ago, they cleaned up all the drainage canals and I wish I would have been paying attention to the 5 miles of stumps that were on the side of the road.

[ThomasPowers]

Note that an improvised anvils IS A REAL ANVIL; just not a London Pattern one!  They often look like an anvil style that has been in continuous use for over 3000 years where a London Pattern has been in use for under 300 years.

[FlatLiner]

I have three improvised anvils. You can find them in the improvised anvil section. I use them just as much as my "real" anvils. One is a 5" x 19" cylinder made out of S5. One is made from two 2" x 8" forklift tines welded back to back to make a 4" x 8" x 25" post anvil. I use these when I have a striker. I also have a block anvil that is made out of S7 that is 5" X 5" x 7". I paid less then $100 US dollars for all of them together. They work just as well as my London/American style anvils.

[BartW]

A week ago, I found a young kids who wanted to get into blacksmithing.  He had pretty much excactly the same question as you have. What to get to start, and do I need a real anvil (and what if I damage it.. ) ? 
I gave him this thing described here: 

 

I still have a couple bars of those left, and the ones I gave way to get people started have all been fairly popular. Some use them on the side; some use the flat face .... some use it as a swage block or a bolster plat once they upgrade to a real anvil.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

I tend to have an 80# improvised anvil chunk(s) to hand for folks who can't find their own.  I sell them at the price I bought them at. Same thing with ex-He "party balloon" tanks for folks who want to build a gas forge.  The scrapyard is only 6 miles down the road; but it seems a lot of people just are afraid to visit it.  (I also bring new smiths on my weekly visits to the scrapyard to help them "learn the ropes".)

[BsnNFrnt]

This is an improvised anvil made from 100% road side scavenged material. All depends on your fabrication capabilities but this one took me a weekend. 

[Bob La londe]

I've got a piece of AR500 plate that I used for small projects for years before getting an anvil.