New and looking for advice

[ThomasPowers]

You can pass the ABS Journeyman's test using a knife forged from 5160 which is a common alloy used for automotive leaf springs.

[Latticino]

Strongly recommend you look into the classes at Touchstone School, which should be pretty close to you.  A couple of good formal classes in blacksmithing and bladesmithing will save you a ton of time experimenting and answer a lot of your questions.  BTW your first hook was quite good and shows a lot of promise.

[anvil]

low, medium and high carbon steels are defined by their carbon content. Heres the numbers:

"To recap, steel is often categorized according to its carbon content. Low-carbon steel consists of less than 0.30% carbon. Medium-carbon steel consists of 0.30% to 0.60% carbon. And high-carbon steel contains more than 0.60% carbon. As the carbon content of steel increases, it becomes stronger and harder. At the same time, it also becomes less ductile."

https://monroeengineering.com/blog/low-vs-medium-vs-high-carbon-steel/

So mild steel, generally called A36, has 0.29% {2.9 points of carbon} carbon  1 point of carbon is 1% of 1%, so 1 point of carbon = .1%. It is at the very high end of low carbon steels. Wrought iron has less than 3 points carbon as well. The difference between wrought and A36 is the added alloys in A36. 

One of the main differences in wrought iron is the carbon content. The lower the carbon content, the less quality. Wrought Iron is refined by forge welding. This removes other impurities. These percents of carbon are determined "by weight". So when the impurities are removed, the weight decreases appreciably, but, with proper technique, no carbon is removed. Thus the % carbon, by weight increases. old Wagon tires  are often wrought iron and usually low quality. You can, in your shop refine these by stacking multiple pieces and forge welding them back together, the same as you would do when making pattern welded steels. 

Low carbon  steels are the go to for general forging. Medium carbon steels are considered Tough steels because they tend to not deform or chip when used. Deformed means mushrooming, or rolled edges. So they are great for hammers, hot punches etc. High carbon steels are used for general cutting tools like knives, sheers etc. They tend to hold an edge, but if bent or misused will tend to break or chip. Added alloys basically enhance these characteristics. Simply said they make tough steels tougher, hard steels harder with less fracturing or chipping, and hot work tools handle heat better. 

[JHCC]

Just a point of clarification: the A36 designation from ASTM is not primarily about its alloy content (although it does qualify as a mild/low carbon steel because its carbon content must be below 0.3%), but about its mechanical properties, such as its yield strength and ultimate tensile strength. There are other steels that also have less than 0.3% carbon, but do not have the same mechanical properties (e.g., 1018, which machines better than A36).

In other words, all A36 is low carbon steel, but not all low carbon steel is A36.

[BillyBones]

1 hour ago, Iron Fangs said:

Motor or Vegetable oil?

Like JHCC said the motor oil contains nasties but if you use the oven to temper it stinks bad. Those nasties aint nothing like the wrath of the wife when you do that. 

It may seem a no brainer but needs mentioned, make sure than the container you use for your quenchant is metal or some other non flammable material. Keep the lid close along with a good fire extinguisher when you quench. Common sense yes but safety cannot be stressed enough.

[JHCC]

My own oil quench tank has wheels (so I can roll it out of the shop into the driveway) and a hinged lid (which I can flip closed to smother any flare-ups). It also has a covered internal catch basin to contain any spillovers -- quenchant can bubble up and out of the container if you're not careful. A bucket of dirt to smother flaming spills is also good to have on hand.

11 minutes ago, BillyBones said:

Common sense

As the man said, common sense is uncommon.

[ThomasPowers]

The difference in wrought iron and steel is the presence of ferrous silicates, AKA "slag" in the metal.  It is possible to have high C wrought, that's what they used for blades for over 1000 years!   It is generally quite low in carbon content as that makes it easier to work with; like mild steel is more common that HC steels as it's easier to deal with.

Wrought Iron is actually a composite material consisting of generally a clean iron with ferrous silicate spicules in it, may have 100K per square inch!   The better grades have a low percentage of ferrous silicates and smaller spicules.  Other "bad" elements sometimes found in WI include Sulfur that makes it hot short and phosphorus that makes it cold short.

[JHCC]

Wouldn’t “high carbon wrought” simply be a form of steel, given that steel by definition is iron + <1.7% carbon?

[Frazer]

Do you mean 0.17%?

[Daswulf]

Don't forget that thanksgiving is coming up and soon there will be an abundance of once used peanut oil from people frying turkeys. 

I actually bought peanut oil this year to fry one of our turkeys we raised.  

[JHCC]

No, 1.7% is about the maximum percentage of carbon you can have (some sources say 2%) and still be steel. More than that is cast iron. 

[Frazer]

Ok, so I think your operator is just flipped, hence the confusion.

steel = iron + < 1.7% carbon

[JHCC]

Oh, right. Fixed it; thanks. 

[ThomasPowers]

You are forgetting the ferrous silicates in Wrought Iron; so low carbon "iron" isn't Wrought Iron without the ferrous silicates that are not alloyed in; but physically present---a composite material.

Now how do we differentiate higher carbon "wrought iron derived steels" with ferrous silicates from steels without?  (Blister steels, shear steels, HC bloom steels,...)

Now most folks won't run into "HC WI derived steels" as their use fell off even earlier with the arrival of crucible steels and the reworking of WI scrap tending the C content downwards.  But sometimes you do!

It used to be that iron == wrought iron and steel == Bessemer steels, hence we get the term "mild steel" which is a bit of an oxymoron to me!   Nowadays folks are generally confused and strain at gnats whilst swallowing camels (hopefully unlit!)

[JHCC]

The ferrous silicates would certainly make the difference between low-carbon wrought iron and pure iron, but wrought-iron-derived steels (blister steel et al.) and bloomery steels (such as tamahagane) are still chemically "steels" regardless of their silicate content, are they not?

[ThomasPowers]

Depends on how you define it; if you go just by carbon content, yes which is why I use the term Wrought Iron derived steels.  However; would you call low carbon wrought iron mild steel?

[JHCC]

Probably not, no.

[anvil]

Thomas, high carbon wrought iron is a term i've never encountered before.  wrought iron that approaches, but doesnt exceed, 3 points carbon is, i guess, high carbon wrought iron.. Mild steel is a low carbon steel.  It has alloys added when made. These alloys take it out of the relm of wrought iron. Wrought has no added alloys. therefor mild steel and wrought iron are two different critters. 

22 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

It is possible to have high C wrought, that's what they used for blades for over 1000 years!

Any "iron", now or then, for whatever reason with 3 points or greater carbon becomes, by defintion, steel. Anything less is wrought iron. Tool use has nothing to do with the material used.

Be careful of those gnats and camels. 

[ThomasPowers]

How do you differentiate steels from the Viking period from modern steels?  They may have the same carbon content but be quite different. 

For Example: We use the terms blister steel and shear steel applying to steels that may have the same carbon content as a modern steel; but were made quite differently and so may have differing properties.  Yes they are all "steels" but some are derived from wrought iron and others are  not.

Modern low carbon "steels" don't have to have alloying; though the presence of manganese to deal with the sulfur from smelting with coke is generally a given.

[JHCC]

I suppose one might consider the manganese sulfides of modern steels to be analogous to the ferrous silicates of wrought iron, in that both are inclusions that result from the manufacturing process rather than alloying elements whose presence alters the performance of the metal.

[Iron Fangs]

But as stated previously by ThomasPowers, modern mild steel is superior to Wrought iron for most purposes due to being easier to work, less brittle, and cheaper to produce yes?

[ThomasPowers]

Well they both do alter properties; but it is a side effect of them.

I have a friend that the Byers process of making Wrought Iron by taking molten Bessemer steel and *adding* slag into it and working it with hydraulically powered "dies" to get WI's ferrous silicate inclusions, just drives him crazy. He rants about making a less pure material from a more pure one---on purpose!

Of course most folks, even most blacksmiths will never run into this stuff and only a few care about it.

Iron Fangs; yes modern steels are almost universally better than old ones.  The few positive differences for WI is corrosion resistance, (now exceeded by Stainless alloys), being able to work at high forging temps making it butter soft under the hammer, (try some real 1018 vs A36 to get a feel for this) and being a great material for forge welding.

Why use real WI?  It was what blacksmiths used for 3000 years with "mild steel" showing up in the mid 19th century.  So if you are trying to duplicate a historical piece *exactly* it's what was used.   It also has an artistic use as etching a piece forged from real WI shows an inherent pattern.

Finally let me throw in:   A lot of stuff is still called wrought iron even though now made from mild steel.  This is a holdover from when it was made from real wrought iron---just like the "Linens" department in a store may have *nothing* made from linen in it nowadays; but those sorts of things were once made from "real linen" and the name is still used.

[Iron Fangs]

If I was given a collection of steel pipe and it is not coated (which of course I will be checking before I put it anywhere near fire), what is the best place to start in terms of using this as forge material? My grandfather has an old farm house and his barn is just lousy with random scrap, rusty pipes, and antique farm tools that he has no need for being that he doesn't actually grow anything but peaches there

[Daswulf]

You'd be better to figure out how to store the material (in this case pipe) so you can find it and access it when it is the right material for a job, or you create a project for it.  Having pipe on hand is good for both tooling, material for building shop equipment like stands and table legs, and also as forge material for a project where it fits as the material to use. 

A warning on forging pipe! It can act as a chimney when in the forge and if you quench the end it can act as a hot water jet or geiser  (i forget the proper term at the moment). 

If forging or quenching longer pipe be sure to plug up the cold/ held end with a wet rag or wet paper towels. This will stop the chimney effect and help keep the held end cooler.

[Glenn]

Found out the hard way that rusty pipe does not mean that it was not galvanized at one time.  

Welding on galvanized pipe can release zinc fumes from the galvanized coatings on the pipe.

There are lots of things to learn about metal in order to stay safe.