New and looking for advice

[Iron Fangs]

I did not even think about the chimney effect the pipe would have, and as for the coating, maybe I'll soak one end of a smaller pipe in vinegar and see if it straps a costing away. Just as a test to make sure right? In an absolute worse case I have one of those 3m respirators from my foundry days, just bought new filters too

[JHCC]

24 minutes ago, Daswulf said:

geiser  (i forget the proper term at the moment)

I think you mean "geyser". This comes from the Icelandic "geysir", from the verb "geysa", to gush.

18 minutes ago, Iron Fangs said:

maybe I'll soak one end of a smaller pipe in vinegar and see if it straps a costing away. Just as a test to make sure right?

Excellent idea. A couple of dollars of vinegar can save you a whole lot more in medical expenses.

When you soak galvanized steel in vinegar, the acetic acid reacts with the zinc to form zinc acetate, which sloughs off the metal in a thin, brittle, and transparent sheet. This is quite benign, and you can pour it down the drain without concern of causing an environmental disaster, especially if you neutralize any remaining vinegar with baking soda first.

[ThomasPowers]

Well a lot would depend on the SIZE of the pipe---which is not mentioned.  I use 3/4" and smaller blackpipe for forging chilies; a good seller out here.  I call the smaller ones "cat proof Christmas tree ornaments----unless your cat has a cutting torch!"

You can also use it to forge "bamboo"  and  cat tails for ornamental use.

My hammer racks are pieces of blackpipe bolted to a frame.

Remember when forging pipe: any rust, scale; or build up in the interior will cheerfully "drain out" an open end onto your hand, boots, etc!

[Iron Fangs]

I'll use caution and make sure safety is the first thing on my mind

[anvil]

23 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

How do you differentiate steels from the Viking period from modern steels?

I'm not differentiating steels. Im differentiating wrought iron from steel. less than 3 points carbon is wrought iron. 3 points or more is steel until the advent of the age of "designer" steels that we are in today.

I'm pretty sure that the way steels were differentiated before adding alloys became common was by a spark test.  Common knowledge, and im puzzled by your responses because I know you are well aware of this. A spark test today is a pretty good way to determine unknown steels as long as you have a known piece to compare it with.

I am only aware of one steel that has less than 3 points carbon and is considered a steel. I'm sure there are more. This is what we call mild steel or A36. The addition of alloys is what makes it a "steel". That would apply to any others as well.  

How would I differentiate steels from the past with modern steels? Steels from the past generally were not alloy steels. I believe that some ancient steels had alloys within. Seems that this is true of "damascus" steel. However, these alloys were contained in the iron ore, not consciously added.

[JHCC]

1018 is another steel with less than 3 points (0.3%) carbon. Technically, a mild or low carbon steel can have as little as half a point (0.05%) carbon and still be called steel.

[anvil]

Yup, I agree. Thus, it is by definition a low carbon steel. I'll check and see if there is a definition for "mild" steel. 

I checked. What a can of worms. First they say its not an alloy steel, then list the possible included alloys that affect its properties. For me this is an ants vs elephants or Gnats vs camels situation.

At least there is no argument that it is a low carbon steel. 


 

[JHCC]

"Mild steel" and "low carbon steel" are the same thing: iron alloyed with between 0.05% and 0.3% carbon.

[anvil]

Lol, sounds good to me. So, I'll stick to pre-modern steels and wrought have no consciously  added alloys within. All modern steels of any kind have added alloys. Which is my answer to the question that Thomas put forth. 

[JHCC]

Technically, ALL steels have alloys, as steel by definition is an alloy of iron and carbon. Modern simple carbon steels do not have additional alloying elements, such as chromium, nickel, etc.

It's interesting to note that the premodern Damascus steel contained very tiny amounts of vanadium. However, this was not present because of the deliberate addition of vanadium itself to the smelt (as vanadium wouldn't be discovered until 1801), but because the specific iron ore used for the process contained these trace quantities that were essential for forming the carbide patterns that distinguish true Damascus.

[ThomasPowers]

BTW that is 30 points not 3 points carbon. 100 points == 1%C  So 1018 is 18 points and 5160 has 60 points and 1095 has 95 points.

3 points is 3% of 1% and so .0003%  which would be very low carbon indeed!

[JHCC]

That’s correct; I’m always getting that wrong.

[ThomasPowers]

Every work any of that "4 Ought" steel that used to be sold as a replacement for WI for ornamental work?  Supposed to be *very* soft under the hammer and MUCH less prone to work hardening than A36.

[Iron Fangs]

You say "suppose," does thst mean it is not as advertised?

[Frosty]

I got to play with some "Pure Iron" a while ago and yes it was very soft and didn't work harden. A 1 1/4" square bare flattened to about 14 ga. thick in one pedal to the metal blow from a Nazel 5 and it was dead cold off the rack. Yellow hot it was like warm taffy.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[JHCC]

I think Thomas was implying that he did not have first-hand knowledge of the truthfulness of that claim. 

[ThomasPowers]

What John said; I still have a bar of it in my "possibles" pile but was saving it to do a highly ornamented gate for my mother, (to use it for light delicate foilage.)

[JHCC]

"It's not a scrapheap! It's a possibles pile!"

[ThomasPowers]

Want to forge; but don't have a project in mind?  It's a "Mission in the Possibles Pile" situation;  cue the theme song and intercut to a smith lighting a forge and pulling stock out of pile...

(Is it Friday yet?)

[JHCC]

Does this include lighting the forge with a length of fuse?

[ThomasPowers]

You mean there are folks that *don't*?!

[Frazer]

Or perhaps a flaming arrow passing straight through a gas forge, scoring a bullseye on the target in the background. Very cinematic.

[anvil]

I've only worked with what we smiths would consider easily obtained wrought, Wagon tires and other assorted types. I have a large bar 1-1/2" sq i think that a local smith gave me. Its from  RR water tank banding from our local old narrow gage rr. Due to his experience i have no doubt its what he says. I have a project for it,,, someday.

Points are confusing. Its 1% of 1%. Doesnt 1%=1.0%? Then 1% of 1% is .1% and 18 points carbon would be .18%? And yes 1018 has 18 points carbon or .18%. 

I almost mentioned your technicality that carbon is an added alloy, but didnt to not further confuse the issue. 

The thing I find about this discussion is that the post modern definition of steel is still 3 points carbon or more and low, medium and high carbon steels are basically the same as post modern. However, it appears there is a new addition called mild steel that spans that 3 points deal. The google search I did said .05% to .29% carbon which I think means a half point to 29 points carbon. Even tho these sources say no alloys in mild steel, this just ain't so and the added alloys are what separates mild from wrought.

Lol,I did once shoot an anvil with no fuse in front of a crowd once.  I got a few black specks in my hand to the day to testify to that bit if foolishness. And I put on a good face so no one in the crowd suspected...  Doesn't take long to learn from ones mistakes.  

 

[Iron Fangs]

Can I make a set of Tongs without using a preexisting set of Tongs?

I ask to avoid injury

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Yes you can, with stock long enough to forge the jaws on each end and draw out the reigns then cut them apart, punch the holes and set the rivet.