jlpservicesinc Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Today with the interenet there are a bunch of different smiths, different levels of understanding and different understanding of what they think they actually had seen when so and so did such and such. This post is spurred on by the fact a few people out there are claiming that a left hand jawed tongs work for both lefty and righties. and just to make what ever. I get tired of talking about which is right or wrong from a traditional point of view.. A righty tong is, flat, turn 90 to the left (counter clock wise) , then 90 to left ( again counter clockwise).. A lefty tong is , flat, turn 90 to the right (clockwise), then 90 to the right (again clock wise). it's not hard.. its even easy to remember.. The only time the tong jaw and boss can be put to the other side is when the boss is a reverse profile.. LIke in the World Blacksmiths tongs. the boss is pushed up. And/or when there is no jaw boss. Then what makes them lefty or righty tongs is which jaw is actually on top. A righty will have the jaw on the bottom or torwards the left hand, and a lefty will have the jaw on top. or towards the right hand. Does it really matter.. It sure does.. Just like lefty and righty scissors. Question is does it matter to any body else??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Well obviously, if you have the wrong handed tongs, you just need to work from the other side of the anvil Seriously, I haven't seen any difference but I have been using commercially made tongs with the reins truly in line with the jaws. It might make a slight difference left over right if the handles were a bit offset to the jaw position as is common on some smith-made tongs..but it's probably so minor that it's not worth worrying about. I do have some similar tools where the handles overlap that way and one can feel a right hand/left hand difference but it has never been enough to bother with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benona blacksmith Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It matters to me. I really hate using left handed tongs as they roll out of my palm instead of nesting in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I have one pair made backwards and they work by they are awkward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Good Morning, When your arms/hands are hanging loose at your side, make a semi grip by partially closing your fingers. Look at the angle of the hole you have just created, JLP has it correct for most Tongs, for Right handed Tongs you turn left or counter-clockwise when forming your hinge boss. Left and then left again. Left handed Tongs are the same except you turn Right or Clockwise to form the hinge boss. You can make universal Tongs (kind-of), by adjusting the reins so they are on top of each other, no offset in the reins. Most commercial Tongs are set with the reins on top of each other. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Not to mention the confusion of which hand you use them in: I am right handed and do almost all my tong manipulation with my left hand leaving my predominate hand open for the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I frequently lose track of which way the tongs are supposed to go when I'm making them. If I do end up making lefty tongs (I'm right-handed), I'll usually line up the reins vertically to make them ambidextrous*. This is usually a problem when I'm making bolt tongs or Poz tongs, where there's no obvious asymmetry to the jaws before you get around to riveting them. * I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 13 hours ago, swedefiddle said: You can make universal Tongs (kind-of), by adjusting the reins so they are on top of each other, As Mr. Kozzy and others have mentioned, vertically centering the reins helps make the tongs closer to ambidextrous. Being predominantly left handed and holding my tongs in my right hand, it is equally neccessary to maintain close to zero play where the hinge is riveted. Makes me want to try my hand at those tongs where one rein passes through the other - box joint tongs? Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 I"m sorry, but lining up the reins does not work that way.. LOL.. Like I said. should it matter and should I even care.. In a general discussion.. LOL.. I align all of my tong reins to be in the middle unless I'm being lazy.. I can tell right off without looking if they are righty or lefty tongs as soon as I hit the metal on the anvil.. I've had a few times when I go to demo where the owners have lefty tongs mixed in with the righty's and it bites me everytime.. As pointed out earlier the jaws are on the opposite side.. LOL.. the only time I make a set of tongs in both righty and lefty is with scroll tongs.. When you apply pressure against a righty pair the wrong way it will spread the jaws as the boss.. so need a lefty pair so the jaws are pulled against the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 LOL? Why do you align your tong reins, Jennifer? I might agree with you about scrolling tongs...... I am still considering that..... Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I've had a few sets of tongs whose reins' alignment was definitely Chaotic Evil. They tended to bite you when you least expected it. They saw the light---of the forge fire and were smitten with the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was something I started doing years ago believing a higher quality product has more thought put into them.. LOL.. More finish.. A really nicely made set of tongs is right up there with a really nicely made hammer, or hardie, etc,. etc. A quality tool is just that hitting all the checked boxes.. Looks, feel, function, form, etc, etc. I also think it's a modern steel kind of thing.. All the wrought iron tongs I have ever used have been over sized for the stock size. this means aligning the reins is nearly impossible.. All but the hammer/axe makers tongs I had found.. Which was neat because I went to the shop in bolton, MA and they had the very same tongs.. Coincidence??? these are designed to be bypass pivot/boss tongs. when I say aligned I mean at just behind the boss/pivot.. All of my tongs align where the hand is put at the ends of the reins. Thomas all of my tongs are size identified. And arranged as such.. I found that same problem when I used tongs that were ill tempered.. Much like slip joint plumbers pliers. Well until they designed them with stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I think some of the large old tongs were designed so the person holding them would be a bit further off from the anvil where the strikers were working. A lot of folks today just don't internalize that a smithy would have multiple people in it back in the day. Part of this is that what we often remember is an older smith hanging on alone in their shop till retirement or RIPment with the change in technologies cutting down on their profits. Of course the change in technologies also worked to make a single smith more productive---motorized blowers and grinders and powerhammers and drills all cutting down on the need for extra hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I'm a lefty and always make my tongs for a lefty. I've never found a modern or an antique/flea market set made for lefties. I have a few flea market tongs in my shop, so, like most lefties, can work with either. I can tell the difference and pass onto my students this difference. It is important because not only are we toolmakers, but we also are one of the few " custom" toolmaker crafts in this modern era. Thus, we ought to know the difference and make them accordingly. One of the reasons is that the top rein is closer to the palm and thumb whilst the bottom rein is slightly outward to sit more natural in the crook of your fingers. This tends to keep the tongs in the right plane(parallel to the world or vertical) naturally when forged. This makes the drop the tongs forge weld slightly more efficient. Setting the reins as described above is important no matter which handed you are. It's the little things that really add up and make a difference at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 Thomas for sure.. This tread was geared more towards regular work, I was talking about regular sized tongs in the 1/8" and up to 1" sizes. Not larger sized ones for strikers or larger sizes for use with power hammers and such. Just plain old tongs. I have some really heavy tongs for making hammers that are wrought iron they are huge.. I think they were made out of wagon tire. Wrought iron is a weaker metal than steel and many of the older wrought iron tongs were made heavier to negate this weakness. The other thing that is pretty cool is that when they started to move away from wrought iron at the factories and others they also made the steel tongs nearly as large It wasn't till later that the items started getting smaller. I had some shoe pull offs that were the size of log or ice tongs.. LOL.. As a long time smith, there is a factor that many won't understand.. Many a long term smith will make and item that is marginal on purpose.. In other words they will make a tool that if barely finished offering only the desired action vs a completely finished tool with all the fine details. It works perfectly for what they want to do and many times is a fast, down and dirty tool that finds it's way into the tool tray. I have seen tongs that don't have forged reins and are just retangle sections and the jaws turned to hold stock. I've seen tongs about as crude as could be and you can see they were quality or used to make quality but the tongs are about as raw as they can be. Anvil well said as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awrksmokey Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I have no idea if this is true or not, but a guy I took a smithing class with a few years ago told me this story about Mark Aspery. Apparently, he made the wrong orientation of tongs once and his blacksmithing teacher welded the reins behind his head sort if like a necklace, and he spent a while hacksawing them off. It's a pretty funny story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 2:06 PM, jlpservicesinc said: the only time I make a set of tongs in both righty and lefty is with scroll tongs.. When you apply pressure against a righty pair the wrong way it will spread the jaws as the boss.. so need a lefty pair so the jaws are pulled against the boss. Jennifer, I was reading through all this thread, and the comment you made about scrolling tongs was enlightening. I had never read or heard about the difference and will now file that away for future reference. I have three sets of scrolling tongs (righty's) where the jaws want to spread when I turn to scroll in a clockwise direction, and you solved that problem. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I make a lot of tongs, both for sale and for prizes when I run the New England Blacksmiths forging competitions. It really does make a noticeable, functional difference to have tongs matched to your handedness. 95% of what I make are right handed, the remaining fall into the scrolling tongs or power hammer tongs categories as noted above. Power hammer tongs in particular get used in either or both hands at the same time. Once in a blue moon someone asks for leftie tongs and I actually find them more challenging to make well as my muscle memory is so used to cranking out righties! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Here's another approach instead of single or multiple sets of scrolling tongs, learn to turn your scroll finials over the edge of the anvil and use a scrolling wrench/bending forks in your post vice for the rest of your scroll. Depending on the scroll, I turn anywhere from 6" to a foot and a half over the edge of my anvil. The rest is at my post vice. I have no dedicated scrolling tongs and rarely use the horn. I learned to do my "scrolling" over the horn as a farrier. I.E., "turning a shoe". When I became a traditional Smith I took this skill set and moved to the edge of my anvil and post vice with scrolling wrench and bending forks. I believe you are way more flexible as to scroll shapes this way than with scrolling tongs, and with practice, there is no problem matching many pieces done this way. For what it's worth, I'm left handed and do understand,,, first hand,,, you might say,,, the benefit to proper handed tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 Anvil, I rarely use scroll tongs for scroll work.. I use them like needle nose tongs, I used them as forms, I use them for bending something that I want a radius in but it's light material where a bending fork is to large. These herb hooks are a great example. they can also be used for spiral wrap. Really handy for many types of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I used them the same way until I saw Kim Thomas demonstrate how to use his (which, BTW, are superbly made - robust and extremely functional). He does a lot of primarily ornamental smith work, including Yellin restorations and often needs to make large quantities of very precise scrolls. He uses the scroll tongs to grab the starting point of the scroll up against the premade scroll form when it doesn't have a penny scroll end or tight inside curve that locks against the starting point. The narrow tip fits extremely well into the gap and makes repeatable scroll generation pretty effortless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Kim has a video of himself making a pair of his scrolling tongs here (not the highest quality video, but there's a nice shot of the completed pair at the end): (Note the cable handles on his fullering tools, to absorb the shock of the power hammer blows.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Those cable handles are really great. I've been meaning to make some for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Newcomer to the forum here... lefty as well and Mark Aspery told me the same story... hilarious. Left handed vs Right Handed tongs are a real thing. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 The Story of Mark A. and the tongs is legendary.. He's still mad about it which makes it all the better story wise. We were having lunch and Mark told the story and one of the guys laughed and said something along the lines that it "Wasn't that bad". Mark's expression changed and it told all.. . I think or would hope things are a little different now, but with this People and smiths can be a cracklely group especially if at it awhile. Basically old and tired. the No BS routine takes hold.. Many of the "Guilds" still have a bunch of archaic rules on the books from what I remember.. I had read a page that was displayed somewhere like page 3 from the British Guild or blacksmiths, It was something about not working on Sunday and if caught there was a 3 day forced closure.. No undercutting prices set by the guild.. There was a whole bunch of them. My background as a Blacksmith is the only reason why I was hired as an apprentice for Farrier work. I used to ask questions all the time and be told shut up and do my work.. One day I was out working on some shoes at the forge and Master came by and said, what the funky are you doing.. I said making shoes.. (it was super hot day and I had been drilling him with questions for the last few hours).. He said thats not how you blanks shoes.. I was standing there was a dumb look on my face.. .. He snatched the tongs out of my hand, pushing me aside.. reaching into the forge he pulled out a shoe and gave it 2 whacks and said that's how you shape shoes.. LOL.. I had already done that shoe.. After that he would leave me alone.. I have a bunch of respect for him.. Gave me the opportunity to learn and to this day have a bunch of thankfulness though every time I see him he calls me bad names then tells the people with him of my amazing shoe making ability which now I am throwing away with funky barefoot crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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