dogblazer9598 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 hi guys we have a 288lb hay budden in the shop that has about a .100 sway in a 3 in long area of the top surface . The anvil came from a horse and carriage building shop from the early 1900's in N.J. what are some thoughts on having it Blanchard ground to be true .We work with them and not a collector . thanks doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 DO NOT modify the anvil until you have used it for a year (2000 hours). A 0.100" (I am guessing that is the measure you intended) is most likely from one type project and many years of use. Read normal wear. Blanchard grinding the face to be true will remove decades and or centuries of the useful life from the anvil. Move 3 inches away and leave this feature for your future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogblazer9598 Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 hi glenn thanks for the reply .we have had this anvil and some others since 1960 and would just like to have a good large flat surface .we have 2 other smaller hay buddens in the shop too .we do mainly decorative iron in our business . doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I came into blacksmithing through knifemaking and the sway in the face of one of my anvils is probably it's greatest feature. It allows me to straighten work beautifully as I can push it just a hair past straight and let it rebound to dead straight! I wouldn't trade it for the same anvil in unused condition! Why not just grind a large chunk of 2" plate for a dead flat surface to work on and leave the anvil be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Leave the sway. It Can be useful And doesnt hurt the work normally made on it. If you need a perfectly flat surfave to just correct or finish a piece on get a larger lump of steel and make a stand for it. Those can be milled or ground to what you want. Anvils have limited face plate or depth of hardness or both. So grinding them does detract from them. And a solution is easy and should be inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Comments on the site are usually made by working blacksmiths that actually use the anvil. They have seen anvils that have lost value or is no longer useful as an anvil due to good intentions. As mentioned above, if you want a dead flat surface, purchase a piece of heavy plate or other material and make it dead flat. Put it on a stand and have the best of both surfaces. A 288 lb hay budden is a wonderful anvil, and to many a dream come true. That said, it is YOUR anvil and you may do with it as YOU wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Welcome to IFI. I always suggest this thread to get the best out of the forum. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ How about some pictures of your HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Welcome aboard Doug, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. Big ditto here. Please do NOT do any grinding on that fine old lady. If you're correct it's been in use for more than a century and has 0.10" wear. Grind it flat and you'll remove more than another century's life from her. If you work in a machine shop FLAT means surface plate, NOT a milled off anvil. You could sell that beauty to a working smith for enough to buy a surface block and some Starret instrumentation. However, it's your anvil. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 My Trenton has some sway. I made a flatter / set station with 2" thick block of mildish steel (has 5 inch returns on a 10 inch ball bearing drop). It works perfectly to straighten things out and is a much bigger surface area than my anvil face. I'm with others, don't grind the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 As has been already mentioned, it's your anvil to do with as you choose. If you still want to flatten up the top face, you should first grind/mill the bottom face. Set the anvil upside down on the working face to make the base parallel with the top face. That way, when you flip it over to kiss the top face, you'll be removing as little material as possible from the hardened face. If you don't do this and the top/bottom aren't parallel to start with, you might end up removing a lot more to get rid of the .100" sway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Removing .100 off the face will remove a major portion of the hardened faceplate as they were not that thick - 3/8" or less in some cases. If it is a solid tool steel top I would be very concerned about how deep the hardness goes. .100 may end up leaving you a top that is soft all over and more prone to deformation than now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 For most anvils they started out considerably thicker than .1" ; .375 to .5" for example. Use wears them thinner and abuse can destroy them quickly! Some brands like Vulcan used a thinner face; one of the several reasons I prefer Fishers to Vulcans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeltree Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Give the ol' anvil a female name then you can say " a little sway in her is a good thang " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If you want a flat face on this anvil, then build it up and grind it to flat. That way you will restore it to the original thickness instead of thinning The hard plate. This is prolly the best article on refacing an anvil. http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 What? Fill in the swayed part on a perfectly hard face? That's seems like a worse choice than the grinding flat. I'd think you'd anneal the whole face around the the area you "filled in". I'd rather see a person sell the swayed anvil and buy another one with a flatter face than mess around with it. Sway is not a big deal unless you have a face that looks like a horse saddle or a camel's back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Naw, you CAN weld hardfacing on an anvil but that tends to be for major damage, not 1/10" sway. For that little spray deposition would be preferable. Regardless you'd alter the heat treatment of the face plate and without knowing just what it is it's a gamble. Rehardening and tempering an ANVIL is NOT a trivial project. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanglediver Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 To be true to an anvil face is to pass it on to another generation, after a career's worth of use, in as good a condition as you got it, maybe sweeter. But then, some people launch them off each other with black powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Good Morning, The gentleman that started this babble-on, seems to be quiet. Either we scared him off or he doesn't like our opinions. Seems to me, end of ramblin'. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Well said tanglediver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 From personal experience wirh my anvil and a long association with others, you do not mess up the temper when using Robb's process above. Even a good hard surfacing rod done properly will not affect your anvil face temper. They both do nothing more than do an excellent 100% restore of your anvil face. As advertised. Robb's rod selections just can't be beat. There is another brand that is less expensive. And, well, what's too much sway? Once we figure out how many angels we can fit on the head of a pin, we can debate that. As for sway being a benefit,,, hmmm, once you have worked on an anvil with a beautiful, pristine, flat face, lol, come back and lets talk. Just my opinion,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Yes, the Gunther process of restoring an anvil face is excellent, but filling in the sway section isn't really the Gunther process. I can see doing that with sections with bad torch marks or bad chunks taken out, but with sway you have a nice hard face that you'd have to fill over top with welding rod. With that said, it's his anvil and there are no anvil police that are going to come and arrest you for doing what you want with something you paid for. It's your anvil. Now here's some sway - see the anvil on the far left : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think there are two different (but closely related) issues here: removing material from the anvil, and the need for a machined-flat surface. Everyone has answered the bit about removing material from the anvil well enough. Blacksmithing isn't an endeavor that requires precision tolerances and machined surfaces within thousandths of an inch. If you're looking for that, there's a different disconnect in this whole process. You're probably looking for a different process than blacksmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 And sway is usually front to back, not side to side which is how an anvil is normally used. Side to side the swayed section is still flat unless really worn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Third post from the OP addressed the need for flatness a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogblazer9598 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Thanks guys for the replies much appreciated .I decided to leave the old girl the way she is and has been for the last 50 something years that I have been with it in our family business .The reason I did not reply all week as I have been away on a road job and did not have the means to reply . thanks doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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