rebar?

[Dan C]

If you want to experiment with rebar make yourself a fire rake or poker for your forge.  That was one of the first things I forged and I still find it a useful tool. 

 

 

It's pretty common for someone just getting interested in blacksmithing to desire to make a sword, and as already stated above there's a lot of reasons not to do so.  First learn the basics, join a local ABANA group.  A very good book for starting out would be The Backyard Blacksmith.  There's lots of projects in there that will get you started and won't end up in frustration.  After doing those try forging a small paring knife.  After making a lot of small knives I have no desire for making a sword.  Too much work & skill involved with not much of a chance to get compensated for your time unless you can really turn out quality work.  Or disregard the advice on this forum and prove otherwise, but it seems like most who go down this path either give up, quit entirely or become interested in making something that's useful and fulfilling.  I only make knives now because people keep asking for them.  I'd much rather make gardening tools & beer openers.

[WmHorus]

I cant do a thing but chuckle about this.......

[ThomasPowers]

Often there is a component of thinking that high level custom handwork has got to be cheaper than mass produced machine work: to these people I would say that mowing lawns and *buying* even a several thousand dollar blade will be cheaper than making one that good YOURSELF.  We do it because we have to....

[Steve Sells]

this is so wrong on so many  points, I dont know where to begin except to say:  the next time you have a sword idea, Please read the other posts written about it before posting, it will increase the chances of people taking you seriously if you are asking about realistic things, rather than this dangerous idea.

 

I am not trying to run you off.  What we are saying is you need to research before posting in a forum such as this to avoid looking like a video gaming day dreamer.  If you wish to learn abou sword making. you can learn, and learn to make very good ones, but it is not something you can learn in only a few days, or even in only a few years. It can be learned only after long hours of study and hard work, which I must admit your post shows you have done niether of which yet.  Read the forum about blade making, and then the sword sections, then you willl see how your first question reflects what I have said.

[Rich Hale]

My original thought when I read this is to point out as others have the hazards and pitfalls in this,,,,,Now as I look it over there has been a little to help you understand why. Spend quite a bit of time in the places suggested above,,get the info that will help you,,,,And for sure I do not know anything about your skill or knowledge level. Forge some rebar,,make some knives,,tools,,wotever suits you. If you do about ten pieces or so you will have a base to work from. Might even use some of our tips in the knifemaking lessons on the site for guidlines on knifemaking, And youi do not have to spend time on final polishing,,guards, handles etc. Then test them. A bend test is good,,,I like to stick a blade deep into the fingers of a heavy leather glove,,,then wearing gloves long sleeve protection and safety glasses and a flip down face shield use a pice of steel tubing over the end of the piece and inside the open end of the glove...tubing long enough for you to put glove including test piece in a solid mounted vise, Use the length of tubing to bend the blade,,,, a heat treated blade should have a little bend in it without breaking. mark the vise with chalk or tape so you can have a goal to bend to. Maybe 20 degrees or so for a start. See wot happens. Put tape on that test piece, note if it bent and stayed bent,,,sprang back straight or broke,

Do the same with each piece. Record all results....If They do well you may want to repeat with a few more degress of bend.

If you see problems you could do another series of testing with known steels,,,maybe even coil spring like used in the knifemaking lessons.

This work will put you in the shop for a time. And simple investment in knowledge. FRom there go as far as youi wish to go with it.

I offer this shop drill for you to see why the negative responses above. Most of us including myself have forged rebar for odd items....For me it is so varied incontent that I cannot predict wot it will do next. Sometimes for reasons I could not predict. It breaks in use..Even if a simple tool such as a punch for limited use. To me that gives me worry that a sord made from it may break in use,,,even if that use is merely a swlinging motion. In know i do that if you hand me any sord!

[oops]

Thank you all for your feedback, especially those who took the time to address the topic instead of judge a man based on his unintentional ignorance. Perhaps I should have researched first but it was a simple question looking for a straightforward answer. Blacksmithing is very hands on, and my only intention of trying to forge a rapier from rebar was to use low quality steel to practice on, on a project that was way out of my grasp, so that I could learn some stuff and have fun. Most of you assumed way too much about my intentions

 

The comment your made about  "if somebody wanted to buy it and use it for say, sword on sword sparring, " was part of your posts statetd intention,

[Nobody Special]

If ya want ta make something pointy out of low end steel, railroad spike knives are fun to play with. They don't keep an edge (because they're very mild steel and don't harden) but they're cool looking, make good letter openers, and offer a lot of possibilities to mess around with. Just don't steal 'em from the rails, they're really really sensitive about that. Can be found cheap at garage sales, flea markets, online etc.

 

For cheap steel, try going to a fabricator, welder, or steel supply and ask them for their "drops", or their drop pile. It means the leftover cutoffs from other orders or bits that are a bit mangled and cut off. They sell real cheap next to buying full bars of virgin steel. Beer is a good tool for bribery, so are simple forged items, hooks, bottle openers, etc, that are also good projects for a beginner.

 

Hot rolled steel (milled through rollers into bars while hot) is generally cheaper than cold (ditto, milled cold), and mild steel (low carbon) moves a lot easier under the hammer, but doesn't harden, so not good for a lot of tools, like knives, chisels, etc. You can also get busted coil springs from a junkyard or mechanic and straighten them out, but you won't necessarily know enough about the heat treatment and what kind of steel you're getting yet.

 

It's not so much that their judgemental, but you asked THE newb question - asking about rebar swords here is akin to going to a room full of mechanics and asking if it's okay if the gas and oil leak out of the car every day if you add more in and by the way you'd like to drive it in a pro-Nascar race.  Only it gets asked at least10 times a week on here. Don't sweat it, a lot of people start by trying (and failing) to make a sword. I did and still haven't made one yet. It takes a lot of expertise and practice on knives first. Rebar sucks, and'll break on you, even for tongs. Maybe, maybe as a coal rake. Good luck.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

 

It's not so much that their judgemental, but you asked THE newb question - asking about rebar swords here is akin to going to a room full of mechanics and asking if it's okay if the gas and oil leak out of the car every day if you add more in and by the way you'd like to drive it in a pro-Nascar race.  Only it gets asked at least10 times a week on here.

What he said.

[ThomasPowers]

Rebar does not forge like the blade grade steels and so your practicing will teach you how to forge rebar *not* blade steels.  When you go to forge blade steels you will find yourself destroying many a piece as your "instincts" are trained for a different material.

(It will teach you the basics of hammering I'll admit; but so will any other steel....)

 

If you need cheap blade worth steels automotive coil and leaf springs is often free and is a good steel for swords.  (You want to get drops from a spring shop if you can so you avoid fatigue issues with old used springs and PLEASE avoid any piece you find on the road broken as the failure mode for a spring is that many micro cracks form and 1 propagates catastrophically leaving the others to laugh at you *after* you have spent hours working on a piece.

 

Have you read the swords section at anvilfire?  (under the armoury section in the drop down menu Sword Making for Gen X); oh yes there is an article on rebar there too under the 21st century link

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Kojakhan, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised at how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.

 

I don't know what the complaint is, you asked a question that only a very little basic research would've answered and some world class bladesmiths took their time to reply. So some folk "judged" you to be a youngster with little knowledge of the craft beyond maybe WOW. Just a few hours of reading in the blade sections of IFI and you'd think the same thing.

 

I didn't see anyone being rude, calling you names or other unsavory behavior and we get this kind of question many times a week. I'm thinking the kids were pretty darned restrained in their replies. You think some replies were harsh, not so, they were actually pretty restrained.

 

If you're thin skinned enough a little straight talk is hurtful you might want to consider a different hobby because the steel, fire and consequences of mishandling one or any doesn't care. You can destroy steel but you can't hurt it, it doesn't care, not a jot, not a bit, not at all. Everything we work with is nothing but highly refined dirt and has no feelings, no mystic powers nor properties, nor guardian spirits. Without HUMAN minds and guidance it's dirt and it's just as happy.

 

Did someone get nasty? OR did they just point out categorically what and how dangerous a mistake it is to try using rebar for a sword? Did someone point out you're playing risk with other people's health and safety in addition to potentially paupering yourself possibly for life? Did they point out that swordsmithing isn't a beginner's game? Did they point out swordsmithing is a craft taking years of dedicated study and practice to be considered a journeyman?

 

That's just straight talk, talking to you like an adult. Straight talk is nothing compared to what steel will say to you if you're not careful. It'll laugh at you in the way of steel, it'll tell you in no uncertain terms you've failed, over and over. If you can't handle failing find something gentler to work with. Steel does not care, it just is. Screw up and it WILL fail.

 

Steel has been rubbing my nose in my failings since I first started messing with it and if there's some spirit behind steel it's still laughing at me and I don't give spit. I'm goIng to keep beating it to MY will or scrap. My call and I like it that way.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SnailForge]

Also good for practice are old files.

Depending on where you live, you can get them dirt cheap at flea markets.

This means (almost) free practice material, which is high quality steel and good for knives.

I quickly found out that forging rebar and forging file steel is very different :)

 

After you've felt hot rebar move under your hammer, you'll be disappointed if you switch to file steel, and really disappointed if you use something like 52100. At least that's my experience.

[SnailForge]

Often there is a component of thinking that high level custom handwork has got to be cheaper than mass produced machine work: to these people I would say that mowing lawns and *buying* even a several thousand dollar blade will be cheaper than making one that good YOURSELF.  We do it because we have to....

 

A guy once asked how much it would cost for me to make him a kitchen knife. When I told him (double digit number) he said 'what! that's more than what I pay in the supermarket!' :)

 

 

 Most of you assumed way too much about my intentions

 

You also said 'BUT if somebody wanted to buy it and use it for say, sword on sword sparring, would the blade snap or bend?' Which indicates that you'd sell it, even though you knew it was not an actual sword and had no idea about the qualities for use as a sword. Let me just say that this is grossly irresponsible and could well end in death.

 

As an aside, no one here would be willing to say it is safe, even if it was. How could we? Aside from the fact that a rebar sword is darwin award material, even if you'd use good steel, we still would not be able to judge whether the sword was made properly, and heat treated properly.

[Dan C]

I'd still recommend making some basic first, your forge tools, tongs, s-hooks, etc.

[Steve Sells]

unintentional ignorance?  its only intentional if you refuse to read what is already written here on this subject, as I see you still have not taken the time to do,  else you would not have posted this again,  You are going to get someone killed. Grow up,  if you wish to play with the big boys, act like one.

 

Is that harsh enough? I can get worse if thats what is needed to get the idea through your head.  YOU NEED TO READ before you jump into this

[Frosty]

 

Ease up Steve, you have a foot across the line here. As an admin you can't break rules and then enforce them on others. It's BAD cred.

 

We can all see he's a kid and as unmotivated as any entitlement age kid. He expects answers he likes and feels mistreated by the truth. Things like responsibility and consequences are for someone else as seen by his poorly worded excuses and accusations.

Take a breath Steve and just ignore him. I am.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Bentiron1946]

Hey, I've made an implement of destruction or two out of rebar, not he easiest thing to do but when it's what's handy it's what's handy. Did they last long, yea and nay. I have made art from rebar, it looks pretty good there. Sometimes we are less kind than we ought to be to the new kids on the block who are the next generation of smiths. This group of young folk that are a dumb as mud need to be led gently into the fraternity of smithing not made to feel like the dog poop stuck in the lugs of our work boots. A little kindness goes much further than a hammer up along side the head. Yes, there are times when you need to be harsh, grab the black end not the red end, but do we need to start off with tell them how stupid they are to want to make something out of something that is laying around everywhere like rebar. We are here foremost to educate one another not to throw boulders or flaming darts at those with less knowledge. I have over my years of doing casting taught young folk what I know about casting and they in turn as they advanced in it have come back and taught me. This should all be about advancing smithing,keep the unkindness to yourself. At least that's one thing Grant taught me, keep your crap to yourself on here and help other. Build up, do not tear down.

[Dan C]

The kid must've deleted his account. His name now shows up as oops.

 

 

Was only a banned member returning to stir the pot with an alternate log in,

[Chinobi]

doesn't indicate deleted, just that he changed his name, you can see it in the name history field in his profile.  if it were greyed out and no longer clickable, that is a symptom of accounts not existing (deleted or banned)

[Frosty]

I have to agree with Bentiron. No matter how obnoxious I FEEL a person is it's no justification to mock them and that's where I found myself going. He's right, a little diplomacy will go a LOT farther than just dumping on new kids with old questions.

 

I offer my apology to all for my behavior, I was out of line and have no excuse. I have days where I'm just PO'd at everything and nothing. It's no excuse I'm trying to work on it but sometimes my amygdala just takes over and I get mean. Like I say, it's mea culpa but I'd sure appreciate it if someone would shout at me when I get like that.

 

I really hope we haven't driven him off.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Bob S]

 

 

We can all see he's a kid and as unmotivated as any entitlement age kid.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

what's an "entitlement age kid" mean?

[ianinsa]

Frosty, you twerp! :P  - As Requested!

@oops

 

We all ask dumb questions  at some point. The idea is to learn and progress!  Steve may seem like a grouch but in his defense he is a very knowledgeable grouch. No one wants you to fail so "keep on trucking" ie read what's available on the forum (and there is heaps) you will soon come to realise "why" you got the responces that you did.

 

Ian

[Dan C]

Considering the potential dangers involved in blacksmithing it's understandable and necessary to be direct.  Frosty was right when he said the fire and steel is unforgiving.  That said, if multiple people have already pointed out someone's fallacy maybe not responding at all is the correct approach.  At least not if you're having a bad day and feel like ripping off someone's head.  If no one responded to a question that you posted what will most people do?  Probably learn to search the forum.  Most of us have posted a question and then realized the answers are already out there, at least I have.

[Bruno C.]

Takes thick skin to work with hot metal.  Can't cry over a little yelling. Or a little burn.   Although with the wealth of information that is available on this site, much less the whole interwebz, it can be overwhelming for those searching for information, especially if you don't know what to look for.  Granted you have to walk before you can run, and many people do want Answers right now (I'm guilty of that myself at times),  searching for the right information and adding it up all together Is tough for some people.  I get confused myself at times, especially when I'm reading about a subject that's a few pages ahead of what I already think I know.   So much information out there, not logically sorted.  Some people come to these sites because of their lack of resources, monetary or otherwise. Some can't afford books or local libraries don't have the info, or will to get the info.  All just excuses I know.  We can't all afford mills and lathes and all that cool stuff people collect over years of their life, but we still wanna do what we want to do. Dunno, hope nobody got discouraged from blacksmithing, but a little scolding won't keep those truly interested in the field from continuing.    I'm guilty of wanting to make a sword myself, and that's what I told my teachers,  they didn't laugh, after 4 months of nothing but grinding metal and breaking up coal, and sweeping the shop, they let me make one.  Out of a piece of mild steel, taught me how to swing the sledge, and told me to break up s'more coal in between.  Wasn't no man cutter, but came out to be a nice wall hanger.  Wish I could find a picture of it...  Going through making something simple like that gives one a great appreciation of what's involved in making something of quality.

 

Any way, ramble ramble ramble, and there's My Two Cents.

[iron woodrow]

First post and you want to make a sword out of rebar?  Tell you what.  Do it.  Then report back on the experience.  The people who know will ask you about your experience level.  What sort of experience do you have?  How much forging have you done?  Have you even made a knife yet?  How many years have you been forging steel and what sort of equipment do you have?  The short answer is.  It won't work on any level.  IF you had any experience at all you would have known that already.  Rebar is crap steel.  Study for a few years and you may be able to make a sword that won't snap the first time you hit something.  Learn about heat treating.  Learn about proper steels.  Learn forging technique.  Read the knife making and heat treating sections of this site.

I think this one sums it up. all that is needed.

polite, and concise.

[Glenn]

This thread is closed.