Large rebar question

[Ranchmanben]

Yep, it's another rebar thread. I've done quite a bit of reading through the forum and found that large rebar has to meet higher standards than regular rebar and that it can be quite good for top tools, bottom tools and possibly even hammers. My question is what is considered large rebar? Is 1" large rebar? I've got a selection in my scrap pile ranging for 1" to 2". I assume the 1.5"-2" is large but I don't know how small still fits in that categorie. Thanks

 

Ben

[Jackdawg]

notionally reinforcing steel has a minimum strength is is supposed to exhibit for the application it is designed for, Specified strength ranges from 250Mpa (basic mild steel plate quality) up to to about 600Mpa. But be aware if they cold draw it, (basically if it comes on a coil rather than lengths, it will definitely be cold worked) work hardening is actually what provides most of that strength, so as soon as you heat and beat it, it is back to mild steel strength.

 

[VaughnT]

The problem with rebar hasn't changed.  Even if it is "good stuff" by some internet smith's estimation.... you don't know how qualified that smith is or where they've gotten their information.  And that's aside from the fact that you don't know how best to heat treat the stuff.  

Now, a hammer made from mild steel is a handy thing to have in a shop and you would do well to make one for yourself as practical exercise.  

If you're interested in making working tools that are worth the time and money invested, you're much better off using steels that are of a known alloy.  Even something like sucker rod is easy to deduce since so much information is available on the internet regarding it's chemical composition.  

You're not saving money or time buy trying to use mystery alloys.  Online retailers sell short lengths of 1045 and 4140 for a very reasonable sum.

[beammeupscotty]

7 hours ago, Ranchmanben said:

Yep, it's another rebar thread. I've done quite a bit of reading through the forum and found that large rebar has to meet higher standards than regular rebar and that it can be quite good for top tools, bottom tools and possibly even hammers. My question is what is considered large rebar? Is 1" large rebar? I've got a selection in my scrap pile ranging for 1" to 2". I assume the 1.5"-2" is large but I don't know how small still fits in that categorie. Thanks

What does "higher standards" mean and in what way do those "standards" make large diameter re-bar more suitable for tooling?  I doubt you know the answer to this question and I suspect whoever you got this "information" from does not know it either.  Beware "common knowledge".  In my experience it is often a synonym for nonsense.

[Marc1]

Interesting nonsensical attempt at not replying. 

I suggest ... if you know the answer, as opposed to simply possess "common knowledge" ... that you kindly explain to the simple folk in this forum who are thirsty for one or two words of wisdom dropped from above, and let us know about alloys and all that and if there is a difference between large and small.

I, and the rest of the audience I believe ... await with baited breath. 

[Glenn]

7 hours ago, Ranchmanben said:

My question is what is considered large rebar?

That would depend on who you ask. 

Rebar is manufactured to meet certain standards, either industry standards or the purchasers standards. You may use it for what ever task you wish, but that does not always make it suitable for the task. As has been mentioned many times, mystery metal is just that, a mystery as to composition. If you are going to put time and effort into a project, the cost of new metal with a known heat treat procedure, is only a small part of the cost of the project. 

We are not saying you can not use rebar, that is your choice. What we are saying is from our experience, rebar may not be a good choice for top tools, bottom tools and possibly even hammers.

[Marc1]

A bit about the US rebar, mostly apparently made from old cars ... so a bit of a mixed bag.

Must say that it is not the same in other countries who use a wide variety of standards for their concrete reinforcing bars ... 

https://sizes.com/materials/rebar.htm

[ThomasPowers]

Rebar used for critical use in large scale building projects is generally done to a higher spec---so Nuclear Power Plant enclosures, Dams, Skyscrapers, Bridges, Interstates---probably use the "good stuff"  note that this does not necessarily mean higher carbon!  It could just be a cleaner low carbon steel to ensure there is no problems with brittleness when welded! Another issue is that collecting scrap from such projects can be difficult as security on them is very high and people not as willing to share.

[Ranchmanben]

I think Thomas has answered my question best. I was under the impression that better but wasn't sure in what way. Cleaner and more uniform would be better without being better in every way. I guess I can always heat a piece up, quench it an see what it does. Might be useful for something. Thanks for the responses. 

 

[arftist]

It is very useful in concrete. Also makes good weight in a scrap load. 

[Jackdawg]

Here in Australia, rebar has a different pattern on it for different grades and the plant it was manufactured from. (differences in the little dashes added to the bar between the ribs) You could have a look at manufacturers web sites over there and see if they use a similar system, that might help you determine where it came from and what its original use was intended to be.

[Steve Sells]

On April 25, 2017 at 2:40 AM, Marc1 said:

Interesting nonsensical attempt at not replying. 

I suggest ... if you know the answer, as opposed to simply possess "common knowledge" ... that you kindly explain to the simple folk in this forum who are thirsty for one or two words of wisdom dropped from above, and let us know about alloys and all that and if there is a difference between large and small.

I, and the rest of the audience I believe ... await with baited breath. 

Marc1 how often does Australian rebar leave Oz and end up in foreign scrap piles?, in most places covered by IFI rebar is simply junk metal for forging.  

[Michael Cochran]

1 hour ago, arftist said:

It is very useful in concrete. Also makes good weight in a scrap load. 

That's two of the best uses I can come up with. I also use it on occasion for handles for PW billets.

[ausfire]

The best thing about rebar is that the pattern is ready made for snake scales. It also gives a grippy handle for bottle openers. Other than that, as artfist said, it is wonderful under concrete.

[Marc1]

19 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

Marc1 how often does Australian rebar leave Oz and end up in foreign scrap piles?, in most places covered by IFI rebar is simply junk metal for forging.   

Sure, that is why I posted a link with US rebar sizes and codes. 

As far as my post in reply to a not helpful reply from the marble tower, I find this type of finger wagging replies very irritating because they discourage others and achieve nothing. 

Then again my irritated reply achieved very little to.

Point taken. 

[Will W.]

14 hours ago, Michael Cochran said:

I also use it on occasion for handles for PW billets.

I believe this is the best use for rebar in the smithy. The lines on rebar make for a good grip, and make it easy to determine the orientation of the billet in the fire. 

[Steve Sells]

10 hours ago, Marc1 said:

.....   As far as my post in reply to a not helpful reply from the marble tower, I find this type of finger wagging replies very irritating because they discourage others and achieve nothing. 

Then again my irritated reply achieved very little to.

Point taken. 

I am only asking you think about who your posts come across. that should not be too hard.

[Glenn]

People read the forum from all over the world. Adding information about rebar in Australia may not directly answer the original posters question, but will answer a similar question from those in Australia. Interesting that the rebar pattern is manufacture specific and the different grades of rebar.

[ausfire]

I am surprised that no-one has taken to collecting rebar. There must be many varieties from all over the world. We have a display of over a hundred different barbed wires (and I believe there are more than 2000 varieties known). Just looking around the scrap pile, I reckon I could see about a dozen different sizes/patterns. Maybe somebody, somewhere, collects rebar.

 

[Daswulf]

I know there are people out there that collect barbed wire. 

[rthibeau]

rebar for a hammer should be at least 1.75" diameter.   I've made a couple and they worked well, I guess, but one owner died and the other is in poor health, so odds are it's a health hazard..........(and no the purple paint wasn't responsible) .....