First Hardy Tool Ever

[Bayshore Forge]

Hey all,

I have been stalling about making proper tools, and decided to try a hot cut Hardy tonight. This was made from one of the largest crow bars I've ever seen with just a chisel, a 3 lb cross pien from HF, and a 180# Trenton. I had to upset it for a good 20 min to get to be larger than the size of my Hardy hoIe. I so wish I had a striker, as the tapering took so many blows from my 3lb hammer. I would love to see all your hot cut hardies as a comparison! 

Any and all advice or comments are welcome. 

 

Brent 

[Donniev]

This is my first, made from 1045. Unfortunately it gets jammed in the Hardy hole, and as my use of it has increased somewhat recently, it's irritated me enough that it's going to be the first thing I throw in the fire next time I light up, gonna fix it. Did you drive it down into the hole to get it to fit? I didn't, I just tapered it down until it fit snugly. We'll learn as we go, right?

[jeremy k]

What size is your hardy hole? - couple heats maybe for the upsetting - only upset when full heat.

[DSW]

here's mine.

 

[Bayshore Forge]

13 minutes ago, Donniev said:

This is my first, made from 1045. Unfortunately it gets jammed in the Hardy hole, and as my use of it has increased somewhat recently, it's irritated me enough that it's going to be the first thing I throw in the fire next time I light up, gonna fix it. Did you drive it down into the hole to get it to fit? I didn't, I just tapered it down until it fit snugly. We'll learn as we go, right?

I like that one! Much cleaner than mine so far. Yea what I did was upset, taper Hardy end, chisel, set it in Hardy and whack it full throttle for a whole heat, then pull out and start the blade taper. 

9 minutes ago, jeremy k said:

What size is your hardy hole? - couple heats maybe for the upsetting - only upset when full heat.

I upsetted when it was still a 4 ft crowbar at full heat as it wasn't the size and shape I needed for the Hardy, but it was the thickest tool (or similar style) steel I had. I only upsetted one heat once it was in Hardy hole. 

5 minutes ago, DSW said:

here's mine.

 

^ im jealous of that one 

[DSW]

Mine started out as a left over piece of 1 1/4"  4140 that I necked down, then upset in a swage block so that it fit my 1" hardy hole. Then I drew it out and shaped it.

[JHCC]

Here are my first two proper hardies. The first one (bottom) was a bit too small, so I made a new one (top). Both are made from torsion bar. 

[MrDarkNebulah]

On 8/13/2016 at 4:37 PM, JHCC said:

Here are my first two proper hardies. The first one (bottom) was a bit too small, so I made a new one (top). Both are made from torsion bar. 

What is the purpose of the fuller at the start of the taper? Is it just decorative or does it serve a purpose?

[JHCC]

24 minutes ago, MrDarkNebulah said:

What is the purpose of the fuller at the start of the taper? Is it just decorative or does it serve a purpose?

Both. I fullered the stock to create the quick transition from the thicker shaft to the thinner blade; that's the practical purpose. When I drew out the blade, I did not take it all the way down to the minor dimension of the neck (although I could have); the remaining fuller just looks nice.

(By the way, when you quote a previous comment, delete out the photos; it saves bandwidth.)

[MotoMike]

ressurecting an old thread. approaching the time when I will try my had at making some hardys.

DSW - hardy seems to set fully on the shoulders.  the others appear that they will sit in the hardy against the tapper.  is this to make sure they don't move around? 

As Bayshore Forge mentions the taper would tend to get stuck in the hardy.  what are the reasons/advantages/disadvantages of one way over the other?

 

[the iron dwarf]

a tapered tool being struck can break off the heel on an anvil so it depends on what you want to achieve, a snug fitting tool resting on shoulders is what I like.

I would make a tool fit snugly in the hole in 2 directions and then mark the sides and have a post with different sockets on top to take a range of tools ( the post is easier to fix or replace than a good anvil would be )

in the floor we have 2 deep metal sockets set in concrete, one with a leg vice on a post and the other a tool holding post, they can be swapped over and either can be fitted in 4 ways in either socket

[ThomasPowers]

In general pounding a wedge in one of the weakest areas an anvil has is a bad idea. In generally trying to hammer on a hardy tool that wobbles back in forth a lot is a bad idea. A hardy should fit and fit well; no more, no less.  Now if you will be doing heavy forging on hardy tooling you especially want to be sure it's not wedging in place.  If you will be cutting hot 1/4" stock then it's not as critical...

[MotoMike]

Thanks gentlemen

 

[Bayshore Forge]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, MotoMike said:

ressurecting an old thread. approaching the time when I will try my had at making some hardys.

DSW - hardy seems to set fully on the shoulders.  the others appear that they will sit in the hardy against the tapper.  is this to make sure they don't move around?  As Bayshore Forge mentions the taper would tend to get stuck in the hardy.  what are the reasons/advantages/disadvantages of one way over the other?

 

Mike, 

I had very limited tooling and skills, so I made one that tapered up to “snug” however I’ve fortunately never had it get stuck. A tinky sideways tap and it loosens right up. 

Hope yours comes out great! 

 

Brent 

 

[MotoMike]

hey, thanks very much Brent.  I think I'll try to make them so they sit firm on the shoulders.  

 

[(M)]

I have made one out of a jackhammer bit, but its really small and unfinished.  Its sitting on the anvil there. I didnt upset it any before i started.  I think i'll make a new one.  Any tips on how to hold the bit steady while upsetting?  Hold with tongs vertically on the anvil? 

Thanks

[JHCC]

Yes. As much as possible, try to keep the heat localized to the area you want to upset. However, be careful about quenching back other areas; improperly quenching tool steel can cause cracking.

Also, speaking of jackhammer bits, if you can get the kind with a collar, those are great for hardy tools. Here’s my most recent hot cut, made from just such a bit. 

(This was after forging and heat treatment, but before I ground in the edge.)

[CreekSideForge]

So I managed to grab some 2x1x3" H-13 blocks from work with the intention of making a hot cut and other tools, what would y'all say to that? I dont have anyway to do the proper heat or anything close to it. I've read that once it's done being forged, let it cool slowly (poor man's anneal), do the grinding , then take it up to a dullish red and put it somewhere safe to cool down for the heat treatment. That sound ok?

I know most of you use jackhammer bits or torsion bars or axles but I don't have any of those available. Plus, I have 3 pieces so there's room for error and mess up.

[ThomasPowers]

Annealing the high alloy steels often takes a furnace with ramping controls.  "cool down slowly" will likely HARDEN H-13.

Perhaps it was merely misworded; otherwise I am sorry to hear you live in a place with no cars or trucks; (otherwise there would be axles and torsion bars available. You just have not worked to find them.)  I note that I have no problem finding such things and I live in a desert---Socorro County NM has a population of 17256 and an area of 6649 sq miles while Kalamazoo County has a population of 261654 and an area of only 580 sq miles.  You have a LOT more stuff around you than I do!

I really like H-13 for slitting chisels and punches---tools that will be buried in hot steel for considerable amounts of time.  I would save the fancy steel for such items and find a source of easier worked and cheaper steels for your hardy.  (BTW, what did the tool rental places tell you they did with their broken and worn out jackhammer bits and your local mechanics with their broken or worn out axles and torsion bars?)

[swedefiddle]

13 hours ago, (M) said:

I have made one out of a jackhammer bit, but its really small and unfinished.  Its sitting on the anvil there. I didnt upset it any before i started.  I think i'll make a new one.  Any tips on how to hold the bit steady while upsetting?  Hold with tongs vertically on the anvil? 

Thanks

"M", You have the wrong angle for a hold-fast in the Pritchel or Hardy Hole. Take a piece of straight bar, put it in the hole and pull the top away from the horn end of the Anvil. Put a bend (more than 90 degrees) and bring the "shoe" end down to the anvil. To set the holdfast, tap down on the top of the "90". To release it, tap horizontally on the "90".

Jackhammer Bits are typically 1045 to 1060. You don't have to Heat Treat the Hold-Fast.

Neil

[(M)]

Thanks swedefiddle! It seems to work but when i get some more steel i might make a new one or rework this.  

As to the upset though?  right now i only have one pair of tongs, and no post vise.  Should i just hold the bit upright and pound it and hope it doesnt fly away? I have found that quite difficult.  

[ThomasPowers]

Do the upset first and have someone else hold the workpiece vertically on the anvil.  Try to localize the heat, (an O-A torch is nice!) but remember to work it as hot as possible---more important than localization in my opinion! Don't work it when it cools; most of the upset will be in the first couple of blows when it's hottest.  Remember you can use set tools to refine the upset's shape after the mass has been accomplished.

[anvil]

I'm no fan of shoulderless hardy tools of any sort for reasons,,, and more,, mentioned above. It's far better when starting out to learn to forge the shaft to the dimension of your hardy hole.

Here's mine made from a truck axle. It's about 20 years old. 

[(M)]

Thanks TP, i will have to ask one of my buddies to come strike for me.  I probably should get around to buying a sledge too.  And making more tongs.... 

Lots to do!

[jlpservicesinc]

Everybody will have a design they have made..  I prefer the older designs with full bottom shoulders and a good fit to the hardie hole.. 

I normally use these 4 shown and order of picture: Straight  (narrow cut), cold, hot and Newly made straight cut (wider cutting edge)

The first 3 were from 1060.. The last is mild steel (1018) with a 5160 face welded on..