Sore fingers

[falsevacuum]

Hi all,

At the New England Blacksmiths conference last week, some awesome people showed me how to use a seldgehammer. I had no problems using it and had a lot of fun! I didn't remember the weight though. I went and picked up an 8lb sledgehammer from IFI's favorite hardware store, Home Depot, and gave it a try. To my surprise, it seemed to have a heck of a lot more shock than the sledgehammer I used at the NEB meet. Moreover, after a round or two of striking, my fingers were so sore that I had trouble opening them. The feeling mostly passed within a few minutes. The other person I was working with experienced similar difficulties. When I woke up the next morning, my fingers were a bit sore.

 

This hasn't happened to me with a hand hammer before.

 

Any idea what the cause (and fix) to this problem might be?

My two thoughts are:

1) Maybe I'm choking up too tight and too far up on the handle?

2) Maybe the hammer head is attached too tight?

 

Thanks!

[ThomasPowers]

How did you dress the handle before using it?  If you have to hold the handle real tight you will transmit more of the shock into your hand and arm than if you can use a loose grip.  Issues may include---wearing gloves, handle too thick, handle coating not hand friendly, handle shape means you have to grip tighter, etc.

[ThorsHammer82]

what handle materials? both the one you used at the conference and the one you bought.

were they both store bought, or were they dressed?

What were the differences in the Anvils? stands? Maybe a different metal being hit?

I don't have an answer to  your question, but I think that this information can help people determine what may have been the issue.

[Alan Evans]

How old are you? Nearest decade will do…and have you done much physical work before? My hand has gone in to a claw more often since passing 55...

What size of stock were you hitting each time?

How heavy was the hammer you used at the conference…8lbs sounds a bit light to me.

Alan

[falsevacuum]

How did you dress the handle before using it?  If you have to hold the handle real tight you will transmit more of the shock into your hand and arm than if you can use a loose grip.  Issues may include---wearing gloves, handle too thick, handle coating not hand friendly, handle shape means you have to grip tighter, etc.

I didn't dress the handle at all. No gloves. The handle coating didn't feel too weird.

what handle materials? both the one you used at the conference and the one you bought.

were they both store bought, or were they dressed?

What were the differences in the Anvils? stands? Maybe a different metal being hit?

I don't have an answer to  your question, but I think that this information can help people determine what may have been the issue.

Both were wood. I suspect at the conference, the one I used was dressed, but it wasn't mine. I don't remember the shape of the handle, unfortunately. I didn't dress mine, just the one that was attached.

The anvil I was using at the conference was a little below knuckle height, and about 100lbs. At home, about halfway between knuckle and wrist, and about 150lbs. Stands were both metal stands. Mild steel in both cases.

How old are you? Nearest decade will do…and have you done much physical work before? My hand has gone in to a claw more often since passing 55...

What size of stock were you hitting each time?

How heavy was the hammer you used at the conference…8lbs sounds a bit light to me.

Alan

I'm in my early 20s. I haven't done a whole lot of physical work, aside from forging with a hand hammer and yard work/piling wood.

Stock was about 1/2 stock both times.

I think the hammer at the conference was pretty close to the 8lb one I bought, but that's just a guess...

[Alan Evans]

Given your answers I would say it is just your body getting used to a new action. It will quickly become accustomed to it and you won't notice the tingle after a while. The extra muscles in your fingers which are necessary for the process will quickly develop and strengthen.

Little and often rather, than an intense 8 hour shift will make it less problematic.

Enjoy the new sensations while they last!

Alan

[TwistedCustoms]

I agree with Alan, the most significant variable you listed is "early 20s". You still have plenty of time to develope good habits. When you double your age, then add a few years on top of that, it's time to start fine tuning every advantage you can. What works for me striking is a heavy hammer, 12 to 20lbs, with a short hickory handle, approx 30 inch. With a handle that short I can get the 20lb above my head for full power strikes and good control. Whichever hand is highest up the handle should slide down the handle as you swing through so the moment of impact finds both hands touching, one attop the other right at the end of the handle. I've never used an 8lb for striking and I'm not fond of the 12. I want the weight of the hammer to be doing a lot of the work on the down stroke. Get some cordwood and a splitting wedge and practice your swing with the short handle hammer. It won't have the same feel as forging but you can practice your swing and get your hammer under control between striking sessions.

[gote]

You wrote that there was more shock. Do you mean that the handle ”hit back” into your hand? No hammer should do that in normal use. I only experience it if I miss a hit. You have got some good advice already. Try to chek out what happens when you hit. If the hammer head hits a hard object close to the edge of the hammer it causes a rotational force that may transmit to the handle as vibration.

If you get tingling fingers this is a warning. If you go on this way you will damage your hand/arm. I do not mean tomorrow or next week even next month but eventually you will have a problem. This is what happens to careless panel beaters.

Göte

[JHCC]

Muscle soreness is one thing; tingling fingers is another. Proceed with caution! Find and fix the problem before it gets worse!

[Alan Evans]

Muscle soreness is one thing; tingling fingers is another. Proceed with caution! Find and fix the problem before it gets worse!

Sorry it was me that introduced the notion of tingle…bad choice of words…but I don't think white finger is an issue here. The OP only referred to soreness, and I think that is just from unaccustomed usage rather than anything more sinister. This was from a few minutes and sessions of work not extended bouts.

Alan

[JHCC]

Sorry it was me that introduced the notion of tingle…bad choice of words…but I don't think white finger is an issue here. The OP only referred to soreness, and I think that is just from unaccustomed usage rather than anything more sinister. This was from a few minutes and sessions of work not extended bouts.

Alan

I get you; no problem. However, tingling in fingers can be caused by a lot of things besides white finger disease*; I myself suffer from a form of neuropathy whose flares are triggered by cold or muscle strain, but which is actually caused by a deficiency of Vitamin B12. Poor hammering technique can also lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and the like.

 

* aka Raynaud's Disease, a form of repetitive stress injury caused by overuse of vibrating handheld machinery, for those who don't know.

[ThorsHammer82]

Would dressing the hammer help at all?

[Charles R. Stevens]

If the face is to flat i would think so, my rounding hammers have very flat faces, and you get your hammer control up to par they jump and twist in your hand. Depending on your hand size dressing the handles may help as well

[SpankySmith]

Forbidden x 4, multiple tries, several different browsers just for the heck of it.   sigh.......

 

I hesitate to mention this when it comes to sledge hammer versus just regular hammer  - I'm sure the dynamics are totally different - but when I first started and had troubles with finger and wrist soreness one of the more experienced guys cautioned me about having a "death grip" on the hammer.  I think the example given was that if someone walks by you at the anvil they should be able to pull the hammer out of your hand without encountering real resistance.  I do tend to death grip things, had to learn to lighten up, it made a substantial difference in soreness after working.  I sometimes revert to old/bad habits and my fingers, wrist reminds me pretty quick. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Ot isn't my hammer hand but my tong hand i have that problem with. 

[Judson Yaggy]

FV,  All the sledges at the meet were mine.  All are in the 8# range, 2 had shorter "striker" type handles and one has an uncut handle as purchased from the hardware store.  Not sure which one you used, but they are all pretty unremarkable, nothing special.  They are all old enough that the varnish on the handles is long gone, perhaps that made a difference.  Anvil hight may have played a part as well.  

Did you buy a fiberglass handled sledge instead of a wooden one?  Made in China with some bizarre tropical hardwood as a handle?

Glad you had a good time, it was a great meet.

[falsevacuum]

Judson:

Thanks! This is one of the awesome things about small groups. Good to know I'm in the ballpark for size. The hammer has a 3' hickory handle. I think we were using the shorter handles -- were those 2'? It was a great meet, and thanks for letting us use your equipment!

ThorsHammer82/Charles R. Stevens:
I don't think the face needs dressing. It's actually pretty round as is.

SpankySmith:
Yeah, that could be an issue. Maybe I'm gripping too tight.

The other thing I was thinking might be an issue is if I'm holding to close. I haven't been able to try again since I posted this, but I recall I was holding up pretty close to the head (a few inches a away). Could that be a part of the issue?

[notownkid]

As stated before be careful with hand soreness it can become chronic if repeated enough times.  It is sending you a message.  IF I remember correct IF the soreness is in the thumb or index fingers Carpal tunnel can be a cause and if it the other three fingers look to the shoulder or neck for the problem.  I've been up this road and have learned to use padded gloves for this type of pounding.  I know a lot of blacksmiths on here have hissy fits if you mention wearing gloves but you have to protect your hands and arms they are the only set you get issued.  Make the handle fit your hand not all handles fit me (esp. shovel handles)

I've had Wood Experts tell me that todays handles are inferior to older handles because of being new growth lumber with fibers being further apart not as compact as earlier growth and to keep away from the fiberglass ones as they will transmit all the shock to you?  I am not an expert but do know we all hated the New Fire Axes in the Fire Department with the glass handles, couldn't get a good grip on them and were clumsy as they were too thick but could find the yellow things in the dark. 

Judson, FV is correct it was a fabulous Fall event for NEB couldn't have been better other than the rain.  Great committee, super hosts and a good time was had by all.  Thanks for all your efforts as I know they were substantial. 

 

 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning, False V

How did you dress the handle before using it?  Blue Jeans,T-Shirt, Boots and Socks would be a good start. Sometimes you have to send it to school to learn how to listen to you!!  Children these Days!!

Normal - is a setting on the Dryer!!! Nothing else.

Neil

 

[turbo7]

Have a look at your hammer face to see if you were hitting with the toe, with an extra 2" in anvil height you may easily have been on the toe of the hammer.

[Charles R. Stevens]

A fresh from the box store hammer has to atleast have the sharp edges and swirls dressed out, but placing a peice of ply on the anvil and give it a wack or three. This will tell you if the anvil is the right hight for sledge work but fast. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

For sledge work I was taught to cross over with my hands on the handle. For a right hander like me the right hand goes towards the top of the handle, and the left hand goes across my body and grips the bottom of the handle. This gives you very accurate blows, as you swing the hammer up and down. You become more of a helve hammer than a swing over the head striker.

[akers]

One variable no one has mentioned is the heat of the stock. dull red is a lot harder than a bright heat and would cause more shock. As a new smith I spent way too much time beating on cool metal. 

[natenaaron]

I know hand problems.  You say you have not done a lot of physical work.  What do you do for a living, and how much time do you spend on the computer?

[falsevacuum]

I know hand problems.  You say you have not done a lot of physical work.  What do you do for a living, and how much time do you spend on the computer?

I'm a CS undergrad student, was doing CS research full time has been my longest job.

So a lot of computer time.

One variable no one has mentioned is the heat of the stock. dull red is a lot harder than a bright heat and would cause more shock. As a new smith I spent way too much time beating on cool metal. 

Could be part of it. Maybe I was pushing the colors too far.

For sledge work I was taught to cross over with my hands on the handle. For a right hander like me the right hand goes towards the top of the handle, and the left hand goes across my body and grips the bottom of the handle. This gives you very accurate blows, as you swing the hammer up and down. You become more of a helve hammer than a swing over the head striker.

I think this is what I was doing. Dominant hand near the head, off hand about 2' down. Both hands on the dominant side. Is that right?

A fresh from the box store hammer has to atleast have the sharp edges and swirls dressed out, but placing a peice of ply on the anvil and give it a wack or three. This will tell you if the anvil is the right hight for sledge work but fast. 

I took a second look. Sharp edges indeed. I dressed them to a radius.

 

 

I'm thinking it was probably just weak muscles. Over the summer I was forging every week twice a week. Once classes started up I couldn't forge for 4 weeks or so and I bet I lost a bunch of muscle. I found my 2lb cross pein gave similar problems 2 weeks later, and it never used to do that. That also points in the direction of weak muscles.

 

Also, side note, what length should I cut the handle down to? I feel like 3' gets in the way. I was thinking 2'.