BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Did a quick search on Craigslist, and the asking prices for anvils is getting out of reach for most smiths. I don't know if I am allowed to post the links, so here are a couple of descriptions. A beat up 150# Fisher for $500A 265# Peter Wright for $185080# Fisher for $500Russian? 110# for $250 looks like a HF one with the canted hardy hole.Unknown 80# for $350At what point will the prices top out? Are people paying this? I understand some can, and do go for what I consider high due to condition, or rarity, but some of these prices do seem pretty out of line.At these prices my 1,199# combined would be around $5,000 - $$8,000. My total cost has been $960 over a span starting from around 1977 to last weekend. All of mine are in excellent to really good condition, no dogs like some being sold, and range in size from an unknown 50# to a 306# Sodefors. HB, Fisher, JHM, Peter Wright, Vulcan are the brands of the others.What is driving the costs up? Is it shows like Pickers, etc.? Collectors? Hoards of people wanting to become blacksmiths all of a sudden? I have seen similar things happen with cars, firearms ,and accessories. Something becomes hot, and the prices shoot up almost overnight. Wait a few years, and they settle out. I just wonder where they will settle out at, and how much higher they will go. I don't plan on selling the ones I have. I have used a couple for loaners to help others get started, and I would also like to get set up to have others over if they do not have a place to forge. For me, I would rather give one away, trade, or sell at my cost to help a friend get started than to sell at such a high price. Maybe it is just me, but I have seen a few neat hobbies ruined by the high cost to do them-leather for example. The cost got so high at one point, my Mom quit doing it, and she was an excellent leather worker. I hated to see her give it up due to affordability. In some ways we are our own worst enemy. As long as people keep paying the prices because they HAVE TO HAVE A REAL ANVIL, they will continue to rise. I just don't want to see anvils , and other gear, reach a point where someone wanting to get into this hobby can't afford to. Some will just say this is the new normal, and I am living in a fantasy, so get used to it. Maybe I am living in a fantasy.........but I refuse to help drive the cost up by flipping them for what I could get. I would rather use my purchases to help others, rather than profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, I am a capitalist , and libertarian when it comes to free markets. I myself have sold items for way more than I paid, and felt OK about it. Paid 25¢ for a reprint of a classic Chevy shop manual , and flipped it for $25 which was less than the high I could have got. I sold factory shop manuals to guys who needed them, not collectors. I would get them for good deals, and I passed the deals along. Faxon used to buy manuals from me, and then double or even triple the price for his customers. He had more overhead than I did that he had to pay for. I picked up an excellent pair of Charger R/T door scoops for $15, then sold 45 minutes later when a guy saw me carrying them, and offered me $60. It was at those automotive swap meets that I bought a lot of blacksmithing gear, mostly tongs. More than cars are drug out of barns.So, what are your thoughts on our hobby? Will it become unaffordable for those who want to use vintage tools? I realize many tools can be made, but an anvil can be a tough one for someone starting out. That is why I suggest a big chunk of scrap when I see the current prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Just look at the price of a new 1/2 ton truck from the early 80s to what they go for now! I do believe the "reality" shows have inflated asking prices and if your patient enough somebody who has lots of money will come along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Some of these used anvils are approaching new anvil prices, and they are not in new condition.How much is that used 80's half ton truck today? I can see new being more expensive as labor, and material costs have risen-plus new vehicles have tons more options available than in the early 80's. Apples, and oranges in a way since the newer vehicles are not much like their ancestors. But there were tons of trucks made then, and tons available today, so you can still find one that is affordable today.Why pay $1,850 for a Peter Wright when you can get a new anvil for the same price, or less? They are good anvils, but they are not the best out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I think the antique shows like American Pickers have contributed to driving costs up and some collectors who will pay a high price don't care if the anvil was abused; they might think a mushroomed and swaybacked top adds to the value. Anvils have always been hard to find in my neck of the woods and I traded an old 44-40, 1892 Winchester SRC for my first Peter Wright (shown in my avatar). The rifle is probably worth $2500 in today's market so it might have been a better investment...except that I've produced many thousands of dollars in revenue on the anvil. The rifle might have gotten fired a few times a year (and the use would have degraded the value)...so I look at the issue in the light of what the anvil has contributed to our standard of living over the years I have owned it.The other side of the equation is that a lot of people are getting interested in the craft as a hobby and might have money to burn so it turns into the old supply/demand seesaw. Edited March 21, 2015 by HWooldridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 There's no doubt in my mind that shows about 'picking' have driven up the cost of things, but there's also a lot more interest in forging due to mainstream drivers like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings and the Vikings television program. While it's great for those of us that try to sell what we forge, it also gets people interested in trying the craft for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel S Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Checking the sold listings on ebay gives a good idea of real prices. There are always people asking the moon for their stuff. There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion. It usually means that they'll be willing to bargain with you after it hasn't sold, but not always.If the selling prices are high, to me it's a great time to unload unneeded stuff. It could also mean that the economy is doing well enough that people have spare cash to invest in hobbies. Edited March 21, 2015 by Daniel S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 These anvil prices are going to end up like the real estate market and stock market Pre 2008 people kept blowing air into the "bubble" and my dad forecast 2008 just before he died in 1985. He said it will get larger and larger and somebody or something is going to come along with a PIN and then hold on everyone is going for a ride. Well as we all know the Pin showed and "Bam" and we all got hit with the flying residue and that ride has lasted a lot more than 8 seconds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Been seeing prices like that up here for decades, sorry you guys are catching up. On the other hand, what you see are asking prices, what are they getting? Anvils are like any other commodity, there's asking and the going prices. If the going price is that high it's because that's what the market will bear so a person might want to think about what they're charging for forged goods.Another factor to think about is how many new guys we get here almost every day and how many are looking for an anvil and kit. With so many folk looking the going price will go up and asking will go up by multiples. After all What the kid's are selling are ANTIQUES look how old they are a REAL blacksmith used it! I just came from the first garage sale on the season and saw a couple old fishing reels on sale as antique and I have older in the basement. Some buyers will consider age a valid factor and blacksmiths are going to have to compete. Such is the supply and demand market.Sure, I could've bought a brand new 3/4 ton, 4x4 Chevy pickup for around $12,000 Cir. 1980-83 but I was earning $7.50/hr+/- and I was a skilled employee. The dollar is an abstract representation of the value of a person's time. If you want a more realistic perspective try calculating how many hours you'd have to work to buy a given thing.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have seen a few anvils sold where I am sure the buyer was not informed at all, or very desperate to get any anvil they can. I agree, these are asking prices and shipping is a big factor with Epay.... One such case was a 140# HB farrier's anvil that a guy from Alaska had in his storage locker here that he was clearing out. It was missing the top plate from the shelf to the front of the hardy hole. A piece of forklift time had been laid on top, and edge welded to the base. As such, you could not use the hardy hole without the hardy sitting halfway on the tine. It was priced at $400, and when I called a week later to see if it was still available he said he sold it for I believe $300. I was going to offer $100, and use it as an experiment for a repair process I have thought about. It would probably work as is, but it had issues to work around. I would like to know who these people are because they are not any members from here that I have met yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have heard that a dollar today buys .17 in 1979 dollars. And a 1920's 1 oz 20$ gold coin is worth 1200$. The currency has been drastically and intentionally devalued, which raises prices. The only reason commodity prices are down right now in the US is that the rest of the world is in worse shape than we are... That makes the dollar look stronger relative to other currencies, and since most things are valued in US Dollars on global markets we get a better deal. One of the benefits of having the worlds reserve currency;-) EBay has made the anvil market a global one, have you seen the European antique anvils being offered on eBay, and all the people looking on eBay... There is almost always someone with more money than sense who wants something more than I do it seems, and has the money to do it... Anvil were expensive, back in the day. Good tools were always an investment that stretched the resources of the craftsman. They were cheaper when it was a lost art. It is no longer a lost art... Looks like they are back to being expensive, and probably gonna stay that way. I hope to be able to buy a Refflinghaus, and or a Peddinghaus anvil but I am not holding my breath... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yes, SJS. The cost of new anvils sets the practical price ceiling. I'd by one of the (relatively) affordable ductile cast iron anvils from a reputable manufacturer like TFS rather than take a risk on a nearly as expensive used anvil from some random ebay or craigslist seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 just missed one on ebay last night 31" long london pattern, I bid 152 uk pounds and it went for 157 uk pounds ( about $225 us ).maybe 250 lb and looked in good condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think the demand fueling the high prices is a result of everyone being so connected via the web and this explosion of the "Maker/DYI Culture" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm not sure if Pickers is the reason or not. I could certainly see the resurgence in interest tied to the movies that Vaughn mentioned. Several archery stores reported boosts in their sales following the Hunger Games. Norrin makes a good point as well. The barrier to entry in picking up a new hobby is greatly reduced when you're an internet connection away from fountains of free information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 We are remarkably lucky here in the UK with anvil prices. Just adding it up I've spent £640 over 5 years or so on six different anvils. The most expensive being £200. That's $951 and $297 respectively. Thats said, they were all good deals and all are in good to superb condition. For some reason we just don't see the same number of really badly beaten up anvils. We have a few obviously but nothing like as many as you guys. In my my opinion you guys shot yourselves in the foot a long time ago when you set up the idea that every anvil had a dollar value per pound in weight. We simply don't have that here. Any anvil on the UK market is just an anvil regardless of its size. So a 700lb monster will fetch the same price as a 100lb'er. Obviously there are exceptions, usually when multiple people are bidding on the same anvil. That 870lb anvil that was posted on here needing a repair, I saw that auction on eBay and I don't think it went for more than £200. That said we've seen a huge price rise recently with prices closer to £250-300. I'm just going by ebay and the buy it now prices. But as has been pointed out, those are the asking prices and you just don't know the prices they sell at. Will the price ever fall? I doubt it; as the demand and the perceived "antique" value you guys have continues to increase, I don't think you'll see a plateau or a fall in the prices. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foundryman Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 That said we've seen a huge price rise recently with prices closer to £250-300. I'm just going by ebay and the buy it now prices. But as has been pointed out, those are the asking prices and you just don't know the prices they sell at. In the UK there are actually seems to be two separate categories of anvils on eBay, there's the regular forged anvils which tend to go for reasonable prices if you look at what anvils have actually sold for instead of what they're listed for, usually £100-£150, regardless of size. Then there are the cast steel Brooks anvils which seem to go for a premium, £250 for a 1 1/2 CWT one for example. For whatever reason they seem to be much, much more desirable, a 3CWT Brooks sold for £450 recently, whereas a (by my estimate, based on supplied dimensions) 5+CWT Peter Wright with cast iron stand failed to sell (twice) for £485.The prices in the UK do seem to be creeping up also, but there are plenty of bargains to be had out there and our prices are very reasonable compared to what you guys in America and Australia seem to be paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Should take a look at the Neo-Tribal movement that peaked a few years ago: home built forges, anvils, tools, used charcoal for forge fuel and some folks did very good work indeed! I once met a fellow telling new folks they should expect to spend several thousand dollars to start blacksmithing; so I went home and build a complete beginner's set up for under US$25 and the fanciest tool I used to build it was a 1/4" electric drill. it consisted of brake drum forge with fence, the blower was an old handy vac---so old it had an aluminium body! There was no collection bag so $3 at the fleamarket, used plumbing fittings at the fleamarket for air piping, Anvil was a broken coupler from a train car that was discarded---about 80 pounds and had a flat and curved sections. Water pump pliers for starter tongs and a brick chisel for hot cutting, several hammers and it was a decent starter kit---I used that forge for billet welding for a number of years as I had tweaked it for that and it did a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 In the UK there are actually seems to be two separate categories of anvils on eBay, there's the regular forged anvils which tend to go for reasonable prices if you look at what anvils have actually sold for instead of what they're listed for, usually £100-£150, regardless of size. Then there are the cast steel Brooks anvils which seem to go for a premium, £250 for a 1 1/2 CWT one for example. For whatever reason they seem to be much, much more desirable, a 3CWT Brooks sold for £450 recently, whereas a (by my estimate, based on supplied dimensions) 5+CWT Peter Wright with cast iron stand failed to sell (twice) for £485.The prices in the UK do seem to be creeping up also, but there are plenty of bargains to be had out there and our prices are very reasonable compared to what you guys in America and Australia seem to be paying.I've noticed that too. I've no idea why they fetch such money compared to other anvils. I picked up a 100lb fisher for £130 not long ago. Mainly because they're so rare over here but it was also a bargain price. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 NO longer in the antique John Deere tractor hobby. The price is not affordable to me. I can't afford to fix the ones I currently have. And the ones I do have mysteriously enough, are not worth anything.............. So I am smithing. I find this an extremely inexpensive hobby for **me** Maybe not for others.......??? Anvils are plentiful. They are everywhere. They are 3.00 pound to 4.00 per.I "work" for the ohio history society and they pay me. They provide me a shop. Steel. Coal. So yeah.....this is working for me. I have bought a number of anvils and hammers and tongs, but that was just for fun....cuz I can. One wire harness clip made from pressed steel, about 3 oz in weight for a 1954 john deere is 75.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Tell what you guys think about this. A "300+ pound vintage hay budden" for $1600. With what looks like either a crack on the face or maybe a cutting torch mark. Found it on cl this mornin just lookin to see if anythin new had been posted in my area and that's the first things I see. I'll post the link if it's ok with everyone if not I won't. It has a dozen pictures from different angles but doesn't scream run away except for the crack in the head of whomever it was that priced it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 I believe direct links are not allowed, but if you mention what city's CL you saw it on , we can look it up ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 It's listed on the birmingham al cl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Looks in good shape, and that it was tipped at an angle in the dirt for some time by the rust pattern on the horn. As for price, 5$ a pound is waaay out of my price pain level, but for others well within theirs. My 306# Sodefors was $200, but that is irrelevant to this transaction. If it is what you are looking for, and it is affordable to you , then get it. HB is a good make, and it is in good shape. Although for $1,600 you can buy a nice brand new anvil. Not as heavy for that price, but new. They are guessing at the weight in the ad, I would want it weighed before I purchased. A new 260# Nimba is $1,800. There isn't a lot of difference in size between my 260# Fisher, and the 306# Sodefors. Their guess of 350 could be way off. Edited April 5, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 A 350 lb Hay Budd has a 5.5" -6" wide face. Easier than trying to weigh it.Also later Hay Budds don't have a tool steel face but rather the entire top half is tool steel welded to the base at the waist. For a later model with tool steel top it is almost worth that price except for the torch gouge in the top plate. That should be good for at least $200-300 off, since collectors will not want it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Did a quick check and saw a 300# anvil on the Inglewood CA CL for $875. Shipping should not run that much, but still under $1,600. Still way out of what I would pay for an anvil. Edited April 5, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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