beammeupscotty Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 16 hours ago, Forging Carver said: Oh alright thanks. I was gonna say $35 but I know this person song figured that I should give them a better price plus I really wasn't sure how much to tell them. I calculated that I made about $10 an hour (which includes time setting up and putting away) off it after minusing expenses and materials. I plan on putting some on etsy because I figured I figured someone must want one maybe for a wedding gift or something. I am also going to bring somebody time we go to a resteraunt that has a bar. Once again, you guys have been a huge help! Thanks so much At the risk of sounding like a complete XXXXXXX, I feel compelled to let you know that there are far better executed bottle openers selling for $25.00 on Etsy. I would refrain from posting yours for sale until you actually master the process of making them. The one you have posted here is very crude and IMO, not worth $25.00. With proper tooling and more experience you should be able to make a much more refined opener from a spike in about 30 minutes max. Just for comparison, I sell my basic keychain opener for $25.00 at shows and a slightly more difficult and time consuming skull themed keychain opener for $30.00. My most expensive opener has a hops cone detail and sells for $75.00. I recently sold 4 of them in one day at a local crafts show. The hops opener takes me about 1 1/2 hours to make compared to about a half hour for the keychain openers. I make more per hour on the keychain ones, but still make the hops opener simply because I like it. On my most lucrative openers I make close to a dollar a minute for my time. On the least lucrative, about half that. My comments are not meant to discourage you from making things. I hope you continue to do so. I just think you need a realistic understanding of where your work fits into the scheme of things and I'd suggest you might want to wait until you achieve a higher level of execution before you start thinking about selling them. Pricing needs to be a function of more than the time it takes you to make an item. It also needs to take into account your market and the workmanship and quality of your items compared to those you will be competing against. I live in the S.F. Bay Area and there is a lot of spendable income here. I can make very time consuming items and expect to be able to sell them for an amount that justifies the time involved in making them. There are many places in the country however, where I would not be able to sell the items I make for even half what I get for them here. Being realistic about your work will help you maintain the enthusiasm needed to reach a higher skill level than you currently enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Those Hops ones are very nice. I like how the stems are textured. That level of detail, and craftsmanship goes a long way in justifying the price. Just as an aside on pricing. I agree with you to a point when it comes to craftsmanship, but I think he can charge what he wants, and sell them when he wants. In the end it will be the consumer who dictates what they consider to be the right value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 1 hour ago, beammeupscotty said: At the risk of sounding like a complete XXXXXXX, I feel compelled to let you know that there are far better executed bottle openers selling for $25.00 on Etsy. I would refrain from posting yours for sale until you actually master the process of making them. The one you have posted here is very crude and IMO, not worth $25.00. With proper tooling and more experience you should be able to make a much more refined opener from a spike in about 30 minutes max. Just for comparison, I sell my basic keychain opener for $25.00 at shows and a slightly more difficult and time consuming skull themed keychain opener for $30.00. My most expensive opener has a hops cone detail and sells for $75.00. I recently sold 4 of them in one day at a local crafts show. The hops opener takes me about 1 1/2 hours to make compared to about a half hour for the keychain openers. I make more per hour on the keychain ones, but still make the hops opener simply because I like it. On my most lucrative openers I make close to a dollar a minute for my time. On the least lucrative, about half that. My comments are not meant to discourage you from making things. I hope you continue to do so. I just think you need a realistic understanding of where your work fits into the scheme of things and I'd suggest you might want to wait until you achieve a higher level of execution before you start thinking about selling them. Pricing needs to be a function of more than the time it takes you to make an item. It also needs to take into account your market and the workmanship and quality of your items compared to those you will be competing against. I live in the S.F. Bay Area and there is a lot of spendable income here. I can make very time consuming items and expect to be able to sell them for an amount that justifies the time involved in making them. There are many places in the country however, where I would not be able to sell the items I make for even half what I get for them here. Being realistic about your work will help you maintain the enthusiasm needed to reach a higher skill level than you currently enjoy. beammeupscotty, you do beautiful work, and your openers are lovely. You deserve every penny you get for them. Your advice to Forging Carver about refining technique and understanding market, workmanship, and quality is all very good, and I hope FC takes it to heart. That said, saying his opener is "not worth $25" is totally off base. As in all sales transactions, the product is worth what the customer is willing to pay. In this case, that's twenty-five bucks. Let's all move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beammeupscotty Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 1 hour ago, JHCC said: beammeupscotty, you do beautiful work, and your openers are lovely. You deserve every penny you get for them. Your advice to Forging Carver about refining technique and understanding market, workmanship, and quality is all very good, and I hope FC takes it to heart. That said, saying his opener is "not worth $25" is totally off base. As in all sales transactions, the product is worth what the customer is willing to pay. In this case, that's twenty-five bucks. Let's all move on. Selling to a friend who may well have never seen a hand made bottle opener before is one thing. Selling on the open market where far more competent smiths are selling much better made openers for the same or lower prices is another. It is the latter context in which I was voicing an opinion on the value of his opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 2 minutes ago, beammeupscotty said: Selling to a friend who may well have never seen a hand made bottle opener before is one thing. Selling on the open market where far more competent smiths are selling much better made openers for the same or lower prices is another. It is the latter context in which I was voicing an opinion on the value of his opener. On the open market, I quite agree. And your openers really are lovely. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Thanks for the help. Also nice bottle openers. I do have to agree what you said beammeupscotty, but one thing I do not. If I can sell the openers I make now that you say are crude, then why not. If a customer is willing to pay $25 for it then fantastic. Also, sometimes the crude stuff can sell better than stuff that is cleaner looking and more perfect. The reason I say this is becuase people like to see something that looks rustic and so it looks like it was hand forged. Personally I would rather have a nicer opener, but there are people out there who do like them crude. My job is to find those people until my openers get nicer looking like some that you guys make. One thing that is going to help a lot is me getting a block brush. Right now I am using a welding brush which removes very little scale. Thank you for the help and I know that my openers definetly need improvement which will come in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sometimes rough and crude are selling points as valuable as refined and well finished. Anyone who wants to make a living at the craft or even have it pay for itself has to learn to read the market and not, NOT take it personally. Demos can be a confidence builder or killer depending on how you take the comments. Most of the time folk walking by have zero idea of what the craft is. "Blacksmiths shoe horses," is probably THE most common thing Daddy tells a child who asks. "My grandfather, uncle, etc. was a blacksmith" is another. These are often the critics who just HAVE to say something especially if they don't have ANYTHING worth saying. You can't let them bother you. You have to keep your eye open for the appraising look of the person who's scanning your product. You k now that little brow wrinkle and Hmmmmm. purse of the lips that says they're thinking of a gift or whatever. You may not get anywhere selling THEM something but not what they're looking at, especially if they appear to be comparing one against another. If you're set up demoing ask if you can make them something, mix and match is a good thing. That's what "real" blacksmiths did in the day they made what people needed or wanted on request. Just thoughts of an old fart. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Quint- Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Just finished this as a gift for my inlaws. Made the main part out of half of a broken stainless scissor. The corkscrew I made out of a piece of stainless threaded rod (left some of the threading marks that survived the drawing out and tapering process for character, instead of grinding it smooth). I think I got carried away with the size of the brass rivets, but otherwise I'm content with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 That's a great piece! Neat idea to use the stainless scissor - the finger loop was half way to the bottle opener shape! Brass rivets look fine to me. Would like to see how you connected the screw to the blade and worked the timber around that. Quality work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Nice opener and great advice Frosty. I always thought it would be cool to go to a craft show where I have portable forge equipment and people can watch me forge as well. A good way to bring attention at the least. One thing I do need to work on is the creativity and the mixing and matching. Right now I make stuff that I base upon a picture or follow in a good video. I am sure it will all come in time just like anything else though. Sorry if I got this thread a little off topic not about bottle openers. Thank you guys for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Quint- Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 4 minutes ago, ausfire said: That's a great piece! Neat idea to use the stainless scissor - the finger loop was half way to the bottle opener shape! Brass rivets look fine to me. Would like to see how you connected the screw to the blade and worked the timber around that. Quality work! Thank you There actually wasn't a finger loop, it was a plastic handled scissor, sort of a half tang construction piece of junk. The screw is riveted to the main body under the scales, with clearance carved out on the underside of the scale so it could swing. Here's another pic prior to the scales, in case I'm not explaining it properly! Thanks again for the compliments, encouragement certainly oils the machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Ah! Thanks for the pic. very clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldironkilz Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Forging Carver, I was just looking at your first bottle opener posted 12 Dec. page 29, then comparing it to your r/r spike opener posted 13 Dec. page 30, looks like you are already improving. Still getting the fulcrum a little too hot and mind those hammer marks. Continue forging and posting your work here as many of us are interested in following the development of your skills. May your fire always be hot and your pockets full of silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 4 minutes ago, coldironkilz said: Forging Carver, I was just looking at your first bottle opener posted 12 Dec. page 29, then comparing it to your r/r spike opener posted 13 Dec. page 30, looks like you are already improving. Still getting the fulcrum a little too hot and mind those hammer marks. Continue forging and posting your work here as many of us are interested in following the development of your skills. May your fire always be hot and your pockets full of silver. Thanks! I looked up fulcrum and it said part that rests for a leverage. I am assuming that it's the loop part of the opener? It is surprising how you can see that becuase I burnt once or twice. I really need to work on some tongs and cleaner forge work. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, Forging Carver said: I really need to work on some tongs and cleaner forge work. Thanks I got the package with the nippers, but I won't have time to mess with them until I get back after Sunday. We'll see how busy I am next week and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldironkilz Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Forging Carver, yes you are correct the fulcrum is the loop, be the loop open or closed. The other two functional aspects of the opener are the tooth, lip, lifter or tab, then the handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 47 minutes ago, DSW said: I got the package with the nippers, but I won't have time to mess with them until I get back after Sunday. We'll see how busy I am next week and go from there. Oh no problem. Take your time with it and enjoy the holiday. Thank you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Nice piece Quint. How was the SS to forge? Some forges nicely some is a mutha bear. Doing demos is fun Forging Carver but you need to have a decent handle on what you'll be doing. Then again you might be able to hook up with another smith doing a demo and get a lesson too. The last couple demos I've done I've had a student present and not only didn't I have to work so hard, the student got to work under a little pressure AND spectators got a look at the process of learning. It worked out nicely all round. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozi Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 My latest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Wow those a pretty nice! I like the leat opener becuase first of all the looks, and secondly becuase it can be used as decoration and an opener. How did you make the leaf so realistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Quint- Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 On 12/23/2015 at 2:37 AM, Frosty said: Nice piece Quint. How was the SS to forge? Some forges nicely some is a mutha bear. Frosty The Lucky. Thank you Frosty. The only difficulty I really had with the stainless was that it cooled SO quickly! Both the broken scissor and the threaded rod I used presented the same characteristic, so I assumed that it was typical of stainless. Short working time and it clearly doesn't like being worked "cold" at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankem Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Just some Irion pipe support I had sitting around. No matter how much you have imbibed you can still open that bottle. This is a prototype, I plan on making another one slightly smaller. As always anything you say will only help me. I leave my feelings in the truck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozi Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Forging carver here is another one for you... It's all in the texture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Wow! The texturing is insane! Merry Christmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozi Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Thanks, merry christmas ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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