anvil

Thanks

Well, I'm kinda coming from the "duck" philosophy. When someone brings up religion on a blacksmith site,, its time to duck and run! Second, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, stand up with pride and call it a duck. It doesnt matter what the reason is its a duck, its still just a danged ole duck. Wow, spell check nearly got me on that last duck. If I hadnt of caught it I'd have been banned for sure! I have 4 anvils. Two 124# PW, a 184# Trenton, and a 255#PW. I've always been set up for a two man shop and two portables. I have always been a working smith and taught on occasions, not the other way around. I've known some great smiths of both kinds. Some of both kinds were collectors. And I've certainly felt that rush that comes from stumbling on, or tracking down that next great find! I've also felt just what George brought up and felt blessed that I wasnt learning for an anvil or whatever. Different strokes for different folks.

What happens is the results you got more times than not. There are two very important points when heat treating. 1: proper temp 2: proper time at that temp.

Lol, its enough to make you lose your temper....

More to the point than definition of terms is you anneal and normalize from "cherry red", not a yellow. This is called "critical temp". Critical temp is just after it loses its magnetism. Also, bring it up to "critical temp", dont bring it down to "critical temp'. This means do it on a rising heat

He just needs a new temper. This time pull it to a "blew", thats a little softer.

Drop forged or closed die forging for sure. And I can see where it was twisted! Very cool. Thanks, Charles. You might consider twisting it 90* so you will have better access to your bic.

Such a flash to the past! My first forge was home built by me. It was the bottom of an old cast hot water heater with 3 green tee posts for legs. I made my twyre out of a couple of pieces of 1-1/2" pipe. The fan was a dc auto heater fan hooked to my truck battery. No switch, I just tapped the hot wire to the forge as needed to control my air flow! And, lol, anthracite coal! You've come a long way, baby!

Excellent!

Dang, I was hoping to get rid of some stuff.

I need to make this clear, It doesnt matter what the cross section I start with is, square or round, especially with heavy stock. For me, heavy stock is 1" and larger. Lol, some daze heavy stock is anything over 5/8". For square bar forged and tapered to either square or round And For round bar forged and tapered to either square or round: If im forging square bar i forge it octogon, round, octogon, square, octogon, whatever the final cross section is. Visa versa if i start with round. Another benefit for this is that the octogon step is a danged fine transition between the opposite cross sections and just happens naturally when tapering in this manner if you leave a little octogon section between the square(round) and the round(square) at the beginning of the taper. Assuming you are going from one to the other. Hope this helps and clarifies any misunderstanding you may have. For what its worth, im not here to tell you how you or your teachers or anyone else ought to do anything. Im here to present just how I do it,, and give my reasons why. However, if you were working in my shop, it would be a different story. I do know which technique is more efficient, and im not one to pay for that lost time. However, I never have a problem, if you are working for me, to pay for your learning time even if learning something new takes more time than what you are familier with. I call that a win win situation. At the very least you would have experience with two techniques to do the same function and be able to make up your mind as to which you will use.

I wouldnt worry about it. Its most likely just normal checking as it dries... unless of course, it splits in half over night. My stands have always been ponderosa pine because I live where there is lots of it. My portable stand was pine and lasted for 20 some years. Yup, checks and all. Not to dissuade you from banding it as that would be a cool forging. If you do, you might consider a right angle tab on each end, if it is a one piece band, and put a nut and bolt thru it. Then, should your stand shrink, as it will, you can tighten up the band. LoL, looks like much of what I said was already posted above. Make sure you put the joinery under the heel or horn. This will minimize it being in the way. And make the tab as small as you can.

Not quite on hardening the tip. The end of your punch is tapered to whatever diameter the tip is. So bring the whole tapered portion up to just above critical temp. Critical temp is where you lose magnetism. Then quench about half or so of the taper in oil for 4140. Put it in vertically and move it up and down, not sideways. Now with sandpaper or file, quickly polish the taper good enough to watch the colors run. When you get the color you want and this color is about half inch long, put your tool in a can of water a bit more than half inch deep. This will stop the color run on the working end. This method is called the reserve heat method as you use the quench heat(in reserve) to run the colors. JHCC's way works fine as well by adding heat after hardening. I prefer the reserve heat method as it saves a bit of time and there is no need for any other tools than your forge.

Well, considering you have been putzing around for a few years in this craft means you might consider a step up with your primary tools. Depending on your experience with conventional tools, by the time you retrofit a wok, or whatever into your forge and fit the twyre and grate to the wok, you will have a lot of time and or money invested in this "restoration". Money if you need to hire out the work. So I suggest that you check out forge suppliers and buy a cast iron round or rectangular firepot setup. Yup, its expensive, but it will blow you away when you use it. Its against board policy to post an addy to their site because we aren't supposed to advertise here. Check it out. I recommend the round one because its most likely a drop in unit. Do not sweat the coal vs coke titles as both burn coke very well. And, drum roll, etc, I do not know what shipping is, but I have an old, well used rectangular centaur forge firepot. Its cracked do to usage but serviceable for many years. I may have an extra CF twyre as well. Ill check when I get home. The firepots are "consumables", the twyre wont wear out. You can replace the firepot in the future once you are rich and famous. You can have them for the cost of shipping. Just check the dimensions for the rectangular pot to make sure it will fit.

I agree. I too harden and temper my hot work tools. The whole tool holds up better. With 4140 I draw the struck end to a purple after annealing and hardening to keep it from mushrooming quite so fast. The shank is usually annealed. The working end is annealed, hardened and differetially tempered to about a half inch or less to a straw on the tip. You will lose the straw, but the end is easy to reharden etc and the rest of the tool stays as is. The other reason is because you are new to heat treating and the only way to learn it is to do it.

You seem pretty focused on using a wok to fix your problem. So whats your plan? Are you going to cut out the rusty parts and drop in the wok? And then cut a hole in the wok and refit the grate and associated pieces?

unless im looking wrong, its a terrible setup. There is a anvil, a helper, and a box of stuff between the smith and the forge! No matter when, no working smith would have a setup like that. Not to mention a window throwing direct changing daylight on the forge.

Frosty' way works as well. Just be very aware that by the time the center double mass is at a forgewelding heat, your thinner edges may burn, especially when using two different steels.

My forge is an old light casting "ranch" forge. Its 2'x3' flat bottomed. I cut out the flat bottom and dropped in a centaur forge rectangular firepot. That was a long time ago and its still going strong. Centaur forge has a round firepot that would drop right in

Lol, Ive had the same thing happen to me!

Or make sure your two pieces are the same width. My process for this is: !: forge weld along the width, as in your drawing above. 2: Forgeweld the edges as if you were champfering the edges. Meaning hold your hammer face at an angle and forge weld the edges,,, both sides so that the double champfer is centered on your parent stock. minimize the champfer width. The wider your champfer, the more you have to forgeweld and upset to get back to a rectangular cross section in step 3. 3: now, edge down and forge weld the "champfer" back into the parent stock. You should be able to do this in one heat, per section forgewelded. Take a second fw heat heat and clean it up.

A pic of your forge would help. I doubt a wok will work. Check the internet for cast iron firepots. You can find them via google.

The primary reason I use a pinch of coal dust as a lube is to keep the clutter away from my anvil workspace. Its just too easy to fill my sacred working triangle with "stuff" as it is.

The main reason is to remove all excess finish and grime from the forging. It will keep your clients from getting black smudges on their hands. Also when done hot this finish soaks into the iron. So unless you really rub one out, you wont lose your finish. This step is where you can develop a "custom" finish. Obviously, the harder you rub here, you will bring out more highlights on your work. The more you rub, the more highlights. These 'high'lights happen on the high points and edges. Its the part of developing finish that I like the best. And yes, buff with a rag. A wheel is too agressive and too much work. At least for my taste. P.S. I reread my post, so to be clear, both cleaning with alcohol and buffing the wax can develop these highlights,,, or not, depending on your tastes.

Very cool. I think what George said is a commom problem with recreations. I ran into that at Bents Fort in southern Colorado. It had many functions, but in my opinion its main function was a "truck stop", and tire/wheel work must have been its primary need. Cliamate changed drastically from south west desert/ high plains to the more moist Missouri ecosystems. Tires wore wood wither shrunk or expanded depending on climate and tires needed to be reset on wheels. Being a blacksmith and have ironed a few wagon tires, I realized their forge was not suitable for efficiently forgwelding a tire in a reasonable amount of time. The forge was in fact designed after a pic of a forge in either Sante Fe or Taos. But definitely it was not setup for its primary use of resetting tires on a 30+ wagon train heading in either direction. I pointed this out and got that proverbial vacant stare in return. The time difference between 1847 and now is nothing compared to this Roman shop. It must be a magnitude of difference in trying to figure out just how it was setup. I wonder if there were any smiths involved in the restoration?