Heat Treating, general discussion

I was wondering if someone could direct me to a good company to analyze some steel bars I have. They are tool steel from an old machine shop. It is most likely O2 but I don't want to get it wrong, because a lot of work will go into this tooling. I hope to use this material to make some cold bending dies. From what I have read this is a good type of steel for this application. I also want to make sure they are heat treated correctly but I need to know what It is first. I figure I could save a few hundred bucks on steel if I can use this material for the tooling. Thanks Tim

Thought this was kind of interestng, and that others might enjoy: http://www.asminternational.org/portal/site/www/NewsItem/?vgnextoid=2339b1d2fe480310VgnVCM100000621e010aRCRD

what are the easiest, cheapest methods of case hardening?

Hey everyone, I recently picked up one of these second hand but barely used. Unfortunately it is too big to fit in my anvil. Obviously resizing it is no big deal but I was curious about what heat treatment I should give it once I'm done because heating it to resize it will ruin whatever heat treatment it currently has. I'm a fairly new smith and heat treatment is one of those subjects that I only have peripheral knowledge about so any help would be much appreciated. Many thanks in advance. EDIT: terrible spelling :/

Here is a question for the metalurgically inclined. Will a normalizing cycle eliminiate or reduce the effects of metal fatigue? I often break the spring on spring swages that I use frequently or a lot for a particular job. The break is often right beside the weld, rarely in the weld unless the spring has been repaired a number of times and a big section is nothing but weld. I have found running a couple of short beads of weld along the length of the spring where it attaches so there is less of a sharp transition helps. Normalizing near the weld after welding often helps as well. But today after breaking the same spring for the third time on this job I wonderered if…

Want to make some 3/4" dia X 3" long PH punches out of 4140. Planned on turning down a groove in the shank for holding with bolt tongs, forge to shape and then HT in an oven I've built. Probably not the best steel to use under a power hammer but it's what I've got and I've got 5 feet so....Question is,what hardness should I be looking at when I temper? Any suggestions/advise appreciated. Keith

Ok, first, this may seem like a non question but it was asked of me and I don't have an answer. I have recently started making different steak turners and forks. They are turning out pretty nice and I've made a few for some family members. I have a large galvanized tub full of peanut oil that I have been using as a quench. The question is: is using peanut oil as a quench a problem for those people who are allurgic to peanuts? Or is there not enough left on/in the metal to worry about? So, those of you that are allurgic to peanuts, would this be a problem? Should I use something else? Thanks for any and all comments and insights. Mitch

I am in the process of making a surface grinding vice, all was going well until it came to hardening the main body. The body of the vice I m/c out of mild steel, as I wanted to have this hard and wear resistant I wanted it case hardened. I packed the part in bone charcoal in a heavy walled steel box, sealed the top with fireclay and put it in a over ramped up to 900oC/1600f I let it do it's magic for seven/eight hours. I turned the oven off and let it cool overnight the next day I put the vice body back in the oven and heated it up to 840 oC and let it sit at temperature for a hour, the part was then quenched in a large bucket of water. Unfortunately on closer inspection…

Hello, I'm looking to make some small garden tools and was wondering if you should draw temper on a small shovel or hoe? I'm going to use some left over scraps of plow disc from my herb knife and cleaver projects!

greetings, i have read for an hour or so on some of the past posting, got allot of info an laughs. i think i have a plan, but thought i should share and see what all you others thought. i will be getting 2 anvils back in a week or so that will have new 4140 plates welded to them. anvils are both under 100lbs and i will have help getting them moved around { with some fabricated tongs to hold it, or a lever and fulcrum}. i plan on using a coal forge for all heating. i plan on using tempi sticks to get to temps for normalize, harden and temper. i have read that both water or oil can be used for quenching, so water is the choice and i have a 50 gallon container …

Alright, I'm convinced that my stock is either cursed or bipolar. So I'm at the Antigo gun show on friday, and I notice a vendor had some flint arrowheads and some beeswax. So I bartered eight arrowheads and a stick of wax for a striker. So later that afternoon, I cut up some coil spring, and went to work. First striker I ever made, and it worked great. Both the vendor and I were able to strike good sparks, and it was the way I tested the flints. So I thinks to myself, "Self, I want a striker of my own. I'll forge one for myself tonight." Same stock, same quenchant (water), and I was sure to heat to above critical before quenching for both of them. Heck, the p…

After my first forge in I went round all the hammers in my school and tempered the heads back as I had a couple of anvils trashed with hammer marks . since then I have made all the new "japanese "style blade smithing hammers that we use in a normalised state an have not noticed any problems with them . I have made a few extra hammers to sell and was wondering what your opinions were on weather to harden them or not. My own personal hammers are still hard and I notice no difference in the function when working hot metal . what do you think . All the best owen

it looks to me like the process of using this stuff just quench hardens the steel. what do you guys think? I mean all comments have to be approved so you cant even bring this to public opinion unless they want you to.

Is hot forging a heat treatment?

I've made three different sets of hammer dies so far for my Appalachian-style guided helve hammer. These have so far all been made from pieces of railroad track and have done pretty decently since being put into service. I'm making a set of main flat dies for the hammer now. In addition to being used by themselves to forge with, they'll also serve as tooling platforms (more information when completed and I have pictures). These dies are made from 3" square 4140 5" long. For quick reference, my die-holding system is here: So I have these flat dies welded to their base plates, pre-and-post heating to make sure everything is as it should be. I need to do a little g…

While I am relatively new to blacksmithing, I would like to think I have my feet under me as far as basic skills go. However, I don't know of any experienced smiths in my area, so I have to turn to books and this wonderful forum. In The Blacksmith's Craft: A Primer of Tools & Methods by Charles McRaven, he states that after running the colors in a forge (heat treating) you should not quench your tool/project. Apparently, quenching the tool could harden the tool again. My latest project was a punch drawn out from a piece of coil spring (5160-ish), so I know there's enough carbon to allow hardening. After completely hardening (heat to red, then quench) I stuck th…

Hey, I went to Brian Brazeal's tool workshop and we made a hammer. We did not quite get to the heat treat part. Does anyone have the basic plan for that? I think this was 4340. Do I need to Quench and temper? Or just temper? Regardless does anyone have the procedure? I am itching to hit something with this hammer head.

So, I've got a few lengths (36" x 5/8's" dia.) of S7, and am wanting to make up some leaf tooling as per Mark Aspery's books. Also want to start a set of "animal head chisels". What's the advice for the heat treating and tempering? Thanks in advance! Robert

I have a question about quenching, or rather avoiding quenching. If I leave a piece out in the air, intending that it be annealed, what is the temperature below which I can put the work in water without affecting the metallurgy of the steel? I have been taking the work out of the forge, letting it air cool, waiting until the work is down to 300F, as measured by a non-contact thermometer. Once the work is warm, not hot, I drop the work in water to cool it so that I can sand it or drill it or perform other processes. My guess is that the real cutoff is maybe 400 or 500F. My goal is that the work be annealed, without me waiting for the work to get down to room temperat…

In 1976, I was able to visit Bethlehem's home plant when they were in full swing. I took with me on the field trip a class from Peters Valley. In the heat treatment department, there were three good ol' boys, and one of them found out I was a smith. He said, "Do you figure-eight 'em when you quench 'em?" When we claimed ignorance, he repeated that you gotta' figure-eight 'em [meaning work pieces]. The other two guys nodded affirmation. Apparently, agitation by the figure-eight allows the quenchant to hit the submerged piece from all angles. Ever hear of that? Any comments? http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

I have been searching the forums, and picking up bits and pieces of information, but I have not been able to gather all the information that I would like. I believe that I could use a kitchen oven for tempering. Not sure about temperature or time. I have a couple of ways to check the oven temperature. However, a kitchen oven is not a precision instrument, and the fact that it is a gas oven means that the temperature control is less accurate, as I understand it. What I have read suggests that temperatures in the 300-500F range would work, but how long? My assumption is that for chisels and drifts, I should quench the tip, but not the rest of the tool. Does that …

I am having trouble over heating when I try to heat treat my projects, its hard to heat evenly

I'm wondering what some of you use for an oil quenching container. How thick of a wall should it be. I know it needs a quickly closable lid for flash fires. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks BTW, I'm wanting it to be used for large items like hammer heads.

i have been wanting a hot punch that is made from old ball peen hammer today i got annealed h head out of lime bucket and mig weld ae handl of tubing will forge in LG 100 p.h. shaping ball end into punch then what?

Found an IR thermometer w/ 1800F @ at an affordable price. Could it be used for heat treating?