Friend wanting to forge

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

58 minutes ago, Frosty said:

What I encounter and we all see on the forum is the belief that having the "right" tools lets a person to do a thing. Tools and equipment are inanimate objects without a human directing them. The finest anvil on Earth can't do anything but rust and even that requires an outside force. 

Frosty your right about jumping the gun on tools…. I’m guilty of buying, building or copying blacksmithing tools that I see, but don’t actually know how to use yet lol, 

Im also guilty of skipping over little practice projects that I struggle with and moving on to more advanced stuff.. 

so I’m not really in a good position to chip in any advice here lol, 

SinDoc, I know you said your working on a hooks but maybe after y’all warm up doing that for a little while then Y’all could try a basic forge weld?

I was scared to try it but, I had a member on here take the time to give me step by step instructions and dumb it down for me and I have been successfull in my practicing forge welding and was surprised that it wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be, granted I still got a long way to go an much more practice but at least I can get the metal to stick an stay now lol

 

 

[Jobtiel1]

Yes I can reiterate what TW said, my first weld was far from perfect but it gave me confidence to try it more, now I haven't found the need to do more complex welds but I am able to do forge welded bits for axes and my own tools and such. Once I get the inside shop up and running I'm going to practice lap welds.

To join in on the discussion, I have some friend who instantly start talking about wanting to forge a knife as soon as they knew that I was getting into blacksmithing, now, two year later I still say that I haven't forged one and don't think I could forge a good one. whenever I invite someone over to do some forging or strike for me I always show them how to do a leaf if they want to try out forging. If they don't want to I say that's what we're doing and that I want to prevent damage to my tools by them just whacking it randomly. No point in trying to learn someone something if they don't want to listen to you. Luckily that has never happened before and they always learn that it looks easier than it is to forge something.

~Jobtiel

[Frosty]

We all enjoy the occasional bout of Dunning Kruger effect, having a yard full of equipment I'm SURE I can use to go with more tools than I can find is just an expression of the very  human trait. We're born and bred to take leaps into the unknown. It's learning to not do THAT again that makes the difference.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Like TW said, it doesn't "usually" hurt to at least Try more advanced projects. If it ends in failure, so what, at least you tried and have a better comprehension of that project to use to go back, learn, study and try again.

I have bundles of failures under my belt for any of the successes. Sometimes you can keep it, sometimes scrap it or sometimes turn it into something else or finish it better later. Not every failure is a waste of time. It is at least a learning experience. Just,, umm.. "try" to do it Safely. None of us need more scars or injuries that could have been prevented. 

[BillyBones]

14 hours ago, Daswulf said:

I have bundles of failures under my belt

Funny, i keep mine in a pile behind the shop. 

[Frosty]

I'm not touching that one!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

 And that is when you have to include the words "so to speak"... 

Funny thing is when I have people over to the shop I have lots of bad example pieces to show because the good ones all sold. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Sounds like me: All of my best work belongs to someone else; but I still have every mistake I've ever made---including the "banana blade" I jumped into making 40 years ago before I knew how to smith...

[SinDoc]

Banana blade sounds cool...

[Vinito]

Banana blade.... Sure sounds like our third "Forge Friday" member. Every week he starts out trying to make a blade. But he always jams the metal to the bottom of the fire and gets squirreled with his phone so when he gets back to it, half is gone and what remains looks like fireworks. Last time he was doing OK for a while, but won't do any homework so starts off making a sword and ends up with a ratty banana pairing knife. Every week so far.

I'm glad he's there though because when I start feeling bad about my two-hour S-hook skill, his example cheers me up. Does that make me a bad person?

[ThomasPowers]

I hadn't learned how to correct the curve that occurs when you are forging in the bevels on a single edged knife.  Works well for cutting watermelons though.  (Now I know several methods to deal with that curve, I prefer heating the blade, putting the convex side up on the anvil face and gently tapping it down to rest the spine on the face.)

Of course back then there were few books and no internet!

[George N. M.]

Vinito, there are some people whose purpose in life is to be a good bad example for the rest of us.  That is their role and some fill it exceedingly well.

If I am working on something that requires very close attention I remove all other distractions from my environment.  I turn off my phone and the radio or CD player and if I know this ahead of time I tell my wife not to interrupt me unless something is on fire or someone is bleeding or both.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[anvil]

Back to the original topic, what I do is what has mostly been said already, but my reasons are different. When someone wants to make something that is beyond his skillset, I try to be positive. I break the project down to its basics, meaning the few simple things we can do to iron. I then figure out the order you need to do the project, Meaning whats step 1 and whats step 10 etc. Most go away with a positive feeling that they can accomplish their deal and have a pathway to success. Lol I've only had one come back and ask for more help. I worked him thru the basics as they came up in order of completion. He finished his projects over time and was very proud of his accomplishment. We are still friends, he still has his project, and that was the last blacksmithing he ever did.  I suspect the others never attempted their project, but ya never know.

I was in that situation once. When I got out of the service I wanted to build a banjo. I had the Flatt and Scruggs Banjo book and in the back  was a how to build a banjo chapter. I sought out a few pro instrument makers for advice. I met a guy who had a metal lathe and used it after he showed me how, and turned the body. yup, a metal lathe to turn wood! Then by luck I met another Vet with access to a wood shop in Victor, Co. He showed me the tools and how to use them. I did some wood carving, inlayed some Cripple Creek turquoise, and my friend inlayed my name in tigerwood on the tail piece (where the tuning pegs go) because he wanted to do something special on my banjo. We are still friends, and I still have and play my banjo.  I never wanted to be a banjo maker, I just wanted to make one for me.  I'm really glad and very fortunate to not have run into anyone who said I need to make dozens of things I had no interest in in order to learn the basics of woodworking to make my banjo. 

[Latticino]

In my first class smithing I made two full tang knives directly following the instructor's direction.  On the last meeting I had extra time since I had finished the grinding and handles at home (couldn't wait), so I made a hawk from a ball peen.  Had very little direction, limited skills, and no YouTube to watch for tips, and it does show in the final product.  However it is also a functional hawk, with a drifted eye (the smith had a round drift I used, then tapped oval) and was fully heat treated.  A good user, I keep it to remember where I came from.  A beard would be a bit harder to achieve, but with the right tools I could certainly teach a beginner how to make one out of a ball peen.

[SinDoc]

I like the look of that Latticino. I still think 100% the main problem will be I myself have never made something like that so wont be of much help lol.

On the positive side, I get to refill my propane tank tomorrow! Will be the first time I have gotten to work on something in nearly 2 months.

[Frosty]

You don't have to "KNOW" how to make a project to teach, just stay one step ahead. You learn more faster teaching a thing than taking classes.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dax Hewitt]

You certainly do but years ago I learned there is a time and a place to be Mr 1 lesson in front. 

When I started Kayaking a few of us novices hooked up with an "instructor" who took us out to play most weekends. What we didn't know was he was basically 1 or 2 lessons in front of us. It was all great until it wasn't and things went wrong and he didn't know what to do. Fortunately I have had enough oh crap moment with different sports and work things that I was able to step in and take charge and rescue the people who were trapped on the river and keep everyone safe. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.