ede Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I purchased a 3 phase Hammond double belt grinder from an industrial auction at the beginning of this year. Unbeknownst when I bought it, I can’t add a more powerful circuit in my blacksmith shop at this time. Yes, I’m familiar with VFD’s but my shop only has a 20amp circuit and it can’t be changed right now. I’d prefer not to go into the details of why I’m unable to get more power right now. A welder, who works a block away from my shop, who does trailer work and has a forklift, has helped me out on numerous occasions by helping unload heavy equipment in my shop. I told him my situation and asked him if he was interested in using my grinder, but I wasn’t ready to sell as I still have hopes to have power for it someday. He is interested and has 3 phase in his shop. I also have a 211 Miller welder that I can’t use in my shop for the previous mentioned reason. I think we came to a verbal agreement or understanding that he is willing to let me use one of his welders-or maybe my welder-and he can hookup my grinder, kind of like a resource exchange. I told him I wouldn’t be running a fabrication shop in his building but it would be nice to fabricate or weld something when I needed to. My questions is this: Do we do this on a handshake or do I write something up that the grinder is on loan to him? I don’t want to insult him as he has been super helpful. By same token, I have seen where tradesman die with their tools in other locations, and they get assumed possession by the landlords, heirs, or business owners. He has 3 employees and I think he wants to help me out because his great grandfather was a blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 That's a tough call, I've lent things to people and never seen it again and I have stuff here someone lent me and again I haven't seen nor heard from them in decades. I still lend and borrow things though. Is 3 phase even available to your shop? Any idea how much a hook up costs even if it's available on the pole at your property line? When I asked here I was told it'd cost more than we paid for the land, 30 acres. Perhaps talk to your friend about selling or trading him for single phase equivalent power tools. Maybe help you build an appropriate grinder. I'm just brainstorming as if I were in your situation. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Unfortunately three phase is currently not available and I’m hard pressed to get more power into the shop. I imagine in Alaska it would be especially expensive to have 3 phase service hooked up. I have a 1 x 42 but it is a dog of a grinder. Good ideas, Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I guess it also depends on how much you have invested in the grinder. If you put out a chunka chunka change make sure you have thoughts planned out as mentioned above. If you got a bragging deal on it, maybe go in another direction- treat it as a gift or permanent loan in exchange for what he has done for you and what he has the potential to do for you going forward. Either way, it is parked at his shop, available for your use. I would be hesitant to set out any kind of written agreement. Still thinking this through...... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Good points, Stash. It was a great deal I got and he has been super helpful in many ways, even lending me an acetylene tank ( he has many) when the one I exchanged had bad threads and leaked. Embarrassed to say how little I paid for the grinder along with a diacro 3 bender, which cost me 3 times as much at the auction, but was still a smoking deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Can you switch out the 3 phase motor for a 200v motor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 The motor is integral to the grinder. I have an older version of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 well, you could use the Steinmetz circuit to connect the 3phase motor to a 1phase connection. It will work at about 70% of its power, and you will need a capacitor for one of the other phases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Deimos, I'm not familiar with Steinmetz circuits. Could you expand on this (preferably with how-to instructions) in a separate post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmbobnick Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 I appreciate this question Ede. I think the answer is highly dependent on how you roll. Here is my spin. Everything we have amounts to nothing at our last breath anyway. In the meantime, I’d look upon this as an investment in a promising friendship and let the deal go down with a firm handshake. If it goes bad, then chalk it up to becoming a better judge of character. If it goes well, then who knows how rich the blessings will grow from a little trust. I think the more we lean on faith than the material things that we accumulate, the more wonderful and meaningful life becomes. I am pretty sure that Charles Dickens would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Since it involves changing a electrical circuit i would not recommend it for DIY, but it is something you could contact a electrician about. But for those who know a thing or two about it, the diagram should speak for it self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 IIRC that runs at 60% which is better than not running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Something around that, can only find a Dutch wiki page about it and there it says 70%. but its a lot more then 0% indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason0012 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Rotary converters are super easy to build, and if its wired right can give true 3 phase which means full power. That doesn't help much though if you just don't have enough power though. If it means you can get it runing although having to run to the neighbors I think I would be inclined to do so just because part time access to tools is more productive than no access. I have loaned out loads of tools over the years and sometimes things go wrong and I regret it, lose tools and materials ect. For every time things did not work out, there were the times it saved someone's butt, or worked out well. Go with your gut if you trust this neighbor. If it goes as planned you will both win. You just have to weigh how likely you think it is for things to go badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Depends on the people involved too. I had a friend trying to finish up his MFA project that I leant my Bader belt grinder too. He wore out/destroyed the 3/4" diameter contact wheel on it. A new one from the OEM was drop shipped to me when he returned it. I leant my Roper Whitney bench punch to a friend who was making a Ti brigandine and needed something to punch the hundreds of holes in sheet Ti. He broke the punch that was mounted in it and replaced it and gave me an extra as he had ordered two to make sure he could finish the project. There are folks out there that if they ran up to me at Quad-State and said "give me your wallet" I'd hand it to them---and others I wouldn't lend a used plastic fork to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 A business associate once told me that contracts (necessary as they may be) and confidentiality agreements simply imply that neither party trusts the other one.....great way to initiate a relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Your business associate is naive, inexperienced, and probably broke,, by now. SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Arkie: Your business associate is correct in an ideal world. It would be great if everybody in a business relationship did what they said they would and sealed the agreement with a handshake. Often that is the case. And in 90-95% of contracts and agreements everything works out to everyone's satisfaction. It is that remaining 5-10% where written contracts and confidentiality agreements and liability waivers are needed. That's why attorneys tend to come up with worst case scenarios, to cover the unforeseen circumstances and to make sure everyone understands the agreement. Witness the recent kerfluffel when covid cancelled the 2020 ABANA conference. It sounds to me that the fair grounds and ABANA did not have a clause in their rental agreement of what to do in a situation like this. No one was expecting a pandemic when the contract was signed. Contracts are a way of executing the philosophy of "Trust everyone, but cut the cards." Or, as Ronald Reagan said regarding the arms reduction treaty (a kind of contract) with the Soviet Union, "Trust, but verify." "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Me. George, and Mr. Arkie, I was a little, too brusque in my past response on this thread. George, your reply is a model of succinct, to the point, and relevant information on the subject. Lawyers drive businessmen nuts in their desire to reflect a good deal or new business relationship. Whilst at the same time, paying a good deal of attention concerning the deal possibly going sour and a divorce of the parties, up the road. The ABANA incident and fallout, (with some bad faith added) is a good example of an intervening unforeseeable circumstance. That is why "act of God" (called 'force majeur'), clauses are added to the contract. (plus a number of other such boilerplate terms). Thanks folks, And have a great year, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Mr. SLAG, no apology needed...recall I did say " (necessary as they may be)". We never did a business deal without either/or a contract or confidentiality agreement, depending on the deal(s). Mr. George, seems like I use "Trust, but verify" almost on a daily basis, even with my wife!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.