ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 2-4% is CAST IRON which was NOT used by European swordmakers. (For one thing they were not casting iron at that period as they were using the direct process to smelt iron, not the indirect process). With luck Dr Hrisoulas will weigh in as his thesis was on swords from that time/region IIRC. BTW have you read "The Sword and the Crucible, A History of the Metallurgy of European Swords Up to the 16th Century" by Alan Williams; best modern research on the metallurgy of European Swords of that period? A good one to ILL (The Tylecote&Gilmore covers an earlier period as does Radomir Pleiner's "The Celtic Sword" Many of the viking era swords were made by the Franks; but the Frankish empire was not "french"! Look at where Charlemagne's capitol was located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienWired Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SLAG said: Mr. A. W., 4% carbon in iron brings is cast iron. Not a very useful sword. Would you please append your sources when making 'definitive statements in your posts? "Earnest belief" or "I saw it somewhere on the net" doesn't cut it. SLAG. Nope, go troll someone else, somewhere else. I do my own research. Try it sometime. 1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said: 2-4% is CAST IRON which was NOT used by European swordmakers. (For one thing they were not casting iron at that period as they were using the direct process to smelt iron, not the indirect process). With luck Dr Hrisoulas will weigh in as his thesis was on swords from that region IIRC. BTW have you read "The Sword and the Crucible, A History of the Metallurgy of European Swords Up to the 16th Century" by Alan Williams; best modern research on the metallurgy of European Swords of that period? A good one to ILL (The Tylecote&Gilmore covers an earlier period as does Radomir Pleiner's "The Celtic Sword" Many of the viking era swords were made by the Franks; but the Frankish empire was not "french"! Look at where Charlemagne's capitol was located. Nope, you are wrong. I refuse to sit here and compete with stupidity. Quantitative analysis of early Viking swords revealed that the carbon content of the blades was very low when compared to later steels. Three pattern welded blades from Norway were analyzed: their carbon content ranged from 0.401 percent carbon, to 0.520 percent carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, AlienWired said: Nope, go troll someone else, somewhere else. I do my own research. Try it sometime. Slag is a professional researcher and certainly NOT a troll. Where ever you found the information you're claiming, it is NOT correct, a request to post cites in far from out of order. You're crossing over to the emotionally invested to the point of unreasonable. Eat a cookie or something, this isn't acceptable behavior on Iforge. 14 minutes ago, AlienWired said: Nope, you are wrong. I refuse to sit here and compete with stupidity. Name calling WILL get you moderated or banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 China did iron casting at an earlier period than Europe and came up with a method of decarburizing cast agricultural implements to make them tougher; but no 4% carbon items in early medieval Europe! AlienWired; being asked to supply cites for your contentions is not trolling; making extraordinary claims without backing them up is trolling! "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" ---the phrase is central to the scientific method, and a key issue for critical thinking, rational thought and skepticism everywhere. (wiki) Central Asia had a cast steel technology before the year 1000, it was well covered in Dr Feuerbach's Thesis "Crucible steel in Central Asia" and some people believe the echt Ulfberht blades were made from such imported steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Even I know enough about blacksmithing to recognize a Troll.... Lol... Alien... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Mr. A. W., Calling me a troll is ungentlemanly and it is defamatory, (libel). SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 I hereby take back calling Alien a troll. Strictly for legal reasons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienWired Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 The carbon content in cast iron generally ranges from 2% to 4%. ... Mild steel is an Iron-carbon alloy containing less than 0.25 percent carbon which makes it more ductile and less hard thus rendering it unsuitable for structural work earn the difference between IRON and ALLOY. VIKINGS USED IRON. Japs used ALLOYS. HENCE THE CURVATURE OF THE SPINE OF A SWORD THAT HAS MILD STEEL FOLDED AND FORGE WELDED TO SPINE. ITS NOT EVEN ROCKET SCIENCE. THE PROBLEM IS I CAN GO THROUGH THESE FORUMS ANDUSE THE MAJORITY OF ALL YOUR OWN POSTS TO CONTRADICT EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING HERE, YOU CLAIM THAT IT WOULD TAKE LIFE TIMES OF EXPERIENCE TO KNOW, BUT THEN ACT AS IF YOU ALL HAVE LIFE TIMES OF EXPERIENCES YOU DONT,ALL WHILE ASSUMING OTHERS LIKE ME ARE BORN YESTERDAY. Now go xxxx xxx... and your forum. I have some tongs to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 The problem with urban legends is that they are easy to believe and combined with confirmation bias, hard to disprove. I've run across some real whoppers in works edited by noted scholars; unfortunately scholars in the social aspects of the medieval period and not the "technical" aspects of the physical culture. AlienWired; shall we go back to talking about sources for cooking implements? "The Opera of Bartolomeo Scappi" 1570 has a very nice selection of kitchen equipment in it from his years as being "Cook for 5 Popes". I've reproduced some of it---with my own variations and it's been used to cook over open fires. His ideas on a "portable kitchen" are almost a "US Army like" definition of "portable"! Another one that is easy to work from is "Iron and Brass Implements of the English House" by J. Seymour Lindsay as the line drawings are easier to work from than pictures. (Why the "Prune People Viking Book" is a real find.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 You may have set a record: only 34 hours from joining to getting banned for language and abusive posting. For the rest of you, FYI the Japanese Swords curve from the quench in the clay covered blades, not the use of any alloy. They used fairly pure iron made into High Carbon steel, not unlike the process the Vikings used. Have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Well the differential hardening method used requires a rather shallow hardening alloy. One reason the Tatara is still used to smelt ore without a lot of the "modern" elements added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Poof, gone. First time I've ever heard anyone claim mild steel is anything but a generic name for a modern alloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Frankly I'm dazzled unto speechlessness by the results of his research. That's the first time I've heard a lot of that. . . stuff. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 "Well, that escalated quickly." I'm glad to see Mr. Wired come and go so quickly. I don't think I've seen anyone use all caps. It doesn't take much time here to recognize Thomas' authority on matters historical and when Slag says something you should pay attention. I count myself as a historian and I recognize both of them as authorities. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 AlienWired is not able to respond. We wish him well. Let us move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirerabbit Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 What did I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicon Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 You didn't miss anything. I was just looking for some popcorn and when I returned to the computer it was all done. It went out like the second fight Muhammad Ali vs. Sonny Liston. Liston was agressive and Ali hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.