AlienWired

The carbon content in cast iron generally ranges from 2% to 4%. ... Mild steel is an Iron-carbon alloy containing less than 0.25 percent carbon which makes it more ductile and less hard thus rendering it unsuitable for structural work earn the difference between IRON and ALLOY. VIKINGS USED IRON. Japs used ALLOYS. HENCE THE CURVATURE OF THE SPINE OF A SWORD THAT HAS MILD STEEL FOLDED AND FORGE WELDED TO SPINE. ITS NOT EVEN ROCKET SCIENCE. THE PROBLEM IS I CAN GO THROUGH THESE FORUMS ANDUSE THE MAJORITY OF ALL YOUR OWN POSTS TO CONTRADICT EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING HERE, YOU CLAIM THAT IT WOULD TAKE LIFE TIMES OF EXPERIENCE TO KNOW, BUT THEN ACT AS IF YOU ALL HAVE LIFE TIMES OF EXPERIENCES YOU DONT,ALL WHILE ASSUMING OTHERS LIKE ME ARE BORN YESTERDAY. Now go xxxx xxx... and your forum. I have some tongs to make.

Nope, go troll someone else, somewhere else. I do my own research. Try it sometime. Nope, you are wrong. I refuse to sit here and compete with stupidity. Quantitative analysis of early Viking swords revealed that the carbon content of the blades was very low when compared to later steels. Three pattern welded blades from Norway were analyzed: their carbon content ranged from 0.401 percent carbon, to 0.520 percent carbon.

Swords in Japan were made from mild steel which in the 1500's or so had a .05% carbon steel content, much lighter. Vikings used iron, much heavier, more carbon, 2 - 4% carbon and needed a lot of mass to survive the abuse of battle, and the weight that durability provides.. Comparing a European battle sword is in no way the same as comparing a sword to a viking axe, or even a sword(which was based more on the Roman gladius and had NO relation to the French designed long sword) that the vikings would make. They aren't the same. Vikings made weapons different than the rest of their European counterparts. The Euro's were a bit more refined in their processes. French designs of the 800's were absolutely astonishing compared to anything made by the Scandinavian's of the time. Vikings never saw painted pictures until 300 AD. =)

Frosty: you wrote - "Are you familiar with the Dunning Kruger articles? "Incompetent confidence," yes? It' not a shot, we all do it, can't help it, it's how our brains work. Your thoughts of a 4140 "stud(?)" for a tong pivot is a perfect example of someone with no knowledge or experience redesigning a tool. As has already been said, you want the rivet to wear out, NOT the tong halves." Even if those tongs are just "Fire pit tongs" for a bonfire? I'd rather have the rivet stay and the tongs last 50 years, they aren't blacksmith tongs. They will never get "cherry hot".. I would hope... They are meant to drop logs in the fire and stir them around a bit. And to be frank here, I've never seen "busted out worn tongs" or someone wear out tongs, I am not even sure how you would "wear out a pair of tongs"unless it's mild unhardenable steel that will flex, disintegrate and generally degrade over time, and even if you did, you just make a new half, no big deal... I enjoy blacksmithing... I've only ever seen someone bust the stud in the tongs after they are cracked, worn, stretched and abused. The biggest abuse in a set of tongs is the stud/pivot point, it is the most stress and the most abused. if a pair of tongs are created correctly, the pivot(rivet/stud) should be locked on one side and the far side or pivot tong should move freely on the pivot joint, so that the pressure of the clamp of the tong is evenly distributed through the material you hold.

"Historically; it was often much easier to throw people at a problem than designing, building and MAINTAINING a mechanism. Having a half dozen workers who could swing a sledge striking or be set to individual tasks would often be more effective than using a tilt hammer for all but large tasks like a battermill making sheet metal from bloom." <---- THAT is what I am assuming took place in the majority of cases. After they got away from "abusing the peasants" they called it "Apprenticeship". I have NO idea what ILL is, but, am totally interested in Viking and Rennaisance smithing, mostly the shapes and processes, I am the one of the worst people to ask to "remember the name of something or someone".. however, to me, that is when smiths started getting into the alloying of steels in a basic way that I can understand. It's more "neanderthalish" and then in around what 300 ad>? they started inter acting with British Saxons and their smithing artistry kicked up a BIG NOTCH. I look at japanese swords and I am dumbfounded..... Leaves me drooling at the way they make steels, I often wonder what would have happened if the Vikings tangled with the Japanese back then. (I personally believe that the Japanese would have absolutely destroyed them.)

WOW! Frosty!!! "Power hammers were ancient before Archaimedes." WOW! I had no idea, but, now you have even researching as much as I can, lol. So traditionally a power hammer is totally acceptable in the shop, but most of us look at "hammer and anvil" as the traditonal methods. You can't even imagine how much I love history... just about as much as I love blacksmithing. OK, 5/8ths is what I am starting with. in both mild steel and the 1080.(though i found out that the 1080 steel is best for making knives, though I stated I don't really want to make knives".. heh. I am not beyond making a nice knife for myself.) I am assuming that the 4140 (stud) that I have planned isn't such a good idea? Is there any better idea? I ASSUMED, taht the springy toughness of 4140 would make for an excellent little stud in the boss of just about ANY type of tongs I made? LOL!!! -- We're getting a chuckle out of your estimation of learning about all types of steel and all their heat treatment characteristics and uses in a couple years. A more realistic estimation is a couple few lifetimes and even if you devoted 60-70 hrs. a week new steels, alloys and uses are being developed daily than that schedule could keep up with. <---- LOL!!! This I do know, but there is a difference between competence, confidence and incompetent confidence...... =) I would like to get beyond the range of incompetent confidence. (which would be arrogance and ignorance?) Thank you for being so graceful in that response, please forgive me, I sometimes make assumptions about small things that are a lot bigger than they appear, but that being said, my inexperience speaks volumes. By the way, I am making FIRE PIT TONGS.... and want to put a 4140 stud in the mild steel fire pit tongs that I will make.. They are NOT BLACKSMITHING TONGS...(although later I want to make some tongs for myself that are like scroll tongs that aren't going into the fire but are tough, durable and won't flex.) someone asked me to make them some "fire pit tongs" so they feel like a "boss" at the party... So I figured I would make him the tongs from mild steel and then put in a 4140 stud to make sure those babies never break. THAT was my entire question. =)

I have that book.... =) I also have a few others. One of the things I love in life is WW1 and that time period before hand, back to BC times. I love scanning the pictures for blacksmithed "stuff"... I used to have a subscription to True West magazine and would scan as much of the pictures as I could to see the blacksmithing, (yes other people scan Playboy...), LOL! Yes, the internet is a treasure trove, I often look at other peoples work and know exactly how they pulled it off, but, I wouldn't assume to be able to duplicate it without practice and even then it would only be imitating. Which is why I try to stay away from learning from other people, so that I do not IMITATE but rather learn for myself and create for myself.(Let's face it though, tongs are tongs, punches are punches, everyone has their own opinions and needs for any given moment in time when it comes to blacksmithing). 4 years ago, my neighbor invited me over for a day of "playing in the forge". I went in thinking I was "Conan" came out dumb founded and stupified at all of the work that I ignored or took for granted over the years that were blacksmithed by others. I started thinking about how many "nails built America".... Including the log cabin that I live in. I went home from my neighbors house that day, and told my wife immediately that "I need to get a forge and an anvil." So, I bought a 125 kilo Ridgid Peddinghaus and a Forgemaster double burner forge, got my propane hooked up, the next year after that I got a JHM 125 pounder so I could drag it outside, cause I also have a wood burning Whitlock forge that I LOVE. I have the luxury of being retired at an earlier age and adopted a "full body" retirement plan that keeps me young, spry and as physically able as possible.. I see other people my age that look like they are 80 and can't judge, but, use as an example selfishly as how I will not live. Thanks Thomas, you're a great wealth of information in your own right and thank you for being so kind. By the way, I love history..... I am thinking about how long the "power hammer" has been around for. I have to imagine that once the Archaimedes screw was developed, the hydro power hammer was not to far behind. =) What do you think? (which is also selfish of me, because I live on 40 acres and a big hill, with 3 natural springs.. and a tractor to build a pond. =) I always GO BIG!

No, mostly I call him "Get back here".

Except they aren't having meetings or taking new members due to coronavirus.. they are one of the 2 organizations that are closest to me and NY is a LOT bigger than you think. I am not in the Finger lakes. I am on the border of PA, in the most rural part of NY state that there is to offer. Our closest Wally world is 45 minutes away. Anyway, I live in the middle of the woods for a reason.. =)

I’m thinking if you worked from the opposite side, you wouldn’t know the vise was even there... it makes me feel like it was made for speed work... and someone that had a specific thing to make repeatedly? and 3 pritchels..... is weird. my dad once said, buy a clock... dont but a phone radio clock..... im like sure Dad... as I type away on my iPad.

Just make sure that the firewool can take all the concentrated heat, and turn it WAY down. Just a nice bright orange in day light is all you need to forge. It might help to add some oxygen to the fire to help conserve propane once you get the baby warmed up.

The more I think about this anvil...... I see and think.... Portability first, I think it may have been used for a traveling show of some sort, and they worked from the opposite flat side, using the vise as needed, on the spot. Now, horse shoeing, I don’t think would take that kind of portability? not to mention with horse showing you just need he basic is... nothing complicated like a vise. So I am thinking that even a traveling “horse” show this wouldn’t be used... I could Totally see it being used in a circus... or even a old time traveling rennaisance fair of some sort, where you would need the vice and anvil. or.. it was just some guy who only had a small room to work with and had an opportunity to keep smiths like us guessing what the Heck did you Do??? Wished there was a thumbs up, I didn’t see this before I posted... I’m out in my shop leaning way over my bench because it’s the only place I can get a signal...

Using a forge master double, I go through a 100 lb tank every 4 months, if I don’t forge weld. Propane is cheap. Averaging 4 to 6 hours about 5 days a week. woah..... all your heat is going out the back and front holes...... put some doors on there..... on my forgemaster my little port holes are about 3 and a half inches wide and it has a chimney... I keep it at about 10 lbs of pressure, and usually at the lowest setting at the forge so I don’t roast myself to death...

Yes absolutely.... it’s ALL different..... Chinese make crap, Euros tend to have better access and more consistent rebar. I’ve learned just about everything I know from Van der Steeg, Switzer(black bear forge) and Steele. Sounds like a Law firm, lol....

I know nothing about it, someone just sent me the picture asking if I knew anything about it.... I just always thought it was one of the most interesting anvils ive ever seen, would love to have it in my shop just too look at.

I’ve spent too much alone time in my shop with all this virus nonsense, but, somehow it’s ok, I like being alone, I like blacksmithing, I love my shop dog, smartest German Shepherd ever, in fact when I brought him home from the puppy mill, he made a bolt for the door......

I've been called a lot worse. "learning" meaning, learning all of the different steels, how to heat treat them all, and all of the different processes involved in hardening and tempering and then experiencing the differences in themselves. heh.... I suspect that would probably be the best way for me to learn is by actual hands on. Whether it takes me 2 months or 2 years, isn't relevant to me but I suspect that in a year and a half I will be well experienced with some of them and have a much better idea of strengths and weaknesses of different steels being used in different applications. @Anvil, finding someone local is a huge problem, there are not many smiths in my neck of the woods that I would consider competent enough to ask any questions. I have considered going to the Amish, locally, but, I found out that many of those folks don't even blacksmith themselves and buy their shoes from PA. In fact, if you look up ABANA in NY.... You will mostly find.......... Arab Bankers Association of North America..... It's sad, really...... Yeh, ALL local events that are within 2 hours of me in the past few months have been all cancelled, no blacksmith meetings of any sort, and I only see that there are 2 that are even IN NY state and they aren't really close to me. So back to doing what I been doing. As I like to say, read a book to learn about how to fish and go hungry.... Or go fishing, maybe catch something and not go hungry. Grab it by the horns..... as they say.

heh, I actually bought my neighbors old early 1900's coal table blower still worked on it. $200.... It's so hard to find coal around here I said to heck with it and use the coal table to hold my propane double burner forgemaster. I have seen SO many people just stack up a bunch of firebrick to make a fire chamber, make a little hole for themselves to insert torch and voila~ they got a small forge up and running. You can use the same torches to weld. =)

The short , honest and straightforward answer is, because I have only smithed mild steel and have NO idea what xxxxxx I am doing(but I never let that stop me from doing anything.)..... And I bought this steel before I asked.(Lesson learned, though sometimes I like making mistakes like this because I will have stock of supplies of things I didn't use previously. LOL!) Any way I would like to move beyond making S-hooks, bottle openers and other assorted "stuff" and get into making stuff that I can use in my shop for smithing, maybe even get into making my own hammers. I am not into making knives so much... They're just not my cup of tea. I like making garden tools and have made a couple of hand held mini-hoes from mild steel.. But would like to make some more serious implements. So that being the case, I decided to take the next year and a half to learn everything possible about different steels and heat treating processes for them. So, here I am. At 50 years old, I don't have time for training wheels(I've always started things off not knowing what I am doing at all and jumping right in.) and wish to Experiment, Experience and Extrapolate as much as I possibly can to become a better smith. Thanks.

You guys have some of the worst jokes, ever..... LOL!!!!

John Switzer (Black Bear Forge)... (If I recall right, pretty sure it was him), that started out with a plywood forge, with a steel fire-pot. I personally started out with a viking type ground forge and a blower with metal flexi-pipe. Using nothing but hardwood that I cut up into 2 x 2 inch chunks, I would cut a couple bins up and get to smithing, using the wood, pretty much like a fast burning coal.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using rebar for certain projects and in fact, with a little dangerous knowledge, you can generally separate the Newbies from the experienced on Youtube, for example, Joey Van Der Steeg out of Amsterdam has been absolutely KILLING it with Rebar lately on his Youtube channel. Making punches, and even axes, showing that it can be a lot tougher than people assume.. Would I bet my life on rebar rockhooks holding me up by a rope over a cliff? No way... But, it makes for fantastic cookware and campfire grating, S-hooks, J-hooks, etc etc... When I first started out I had a HUGE stack of rebar... I got most of it free, and turned a lot of it into 6inch S-jooks and J-hooks that were sold for $6 each and some people like it when I leave the rebar twists in the material and then give them another twist or two, makes a very unique looking S-Hook. They also make great fire pokers with the rebar pattern, again acting as a handle. Anyway, this post is not to argue, or start a debate, just trying to give other people options that they may or may not have thought about when it comes to cheap steel and simple projects. I think rebar is the perfect "stuff" to use for the newbie in learning how to make basic and simple elements.

I have 6ft of 5/8th's A36 mild steel coming and also 2 pieces of 1080, 5/8ths x 6ft... Also managed to sneak in a nice 6ft x 1/2" 4140... I was going to make a couple sets of Fire pit tongs and before I asked to inform myself properly, I ordered the 4140 thinking I would use the round stock as my boss stud/pivot.... My thought was that I wanted the most durable and tough "stud" in the boss as possible, and am wondering if my thinking is correct in using the 4140 after proper quenching? the 1080 tool steel is going to be used to make my own personal tongs for smithing as well. Any information to help clarify all this for me would be greatly appreciated and very helpful. Thanks in advance.