Eventlessbox Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 That angle in the video it seems like you can almost see a colour shift between the edges and the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.P. Hall Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Polish, etch, repeat... anvil hamon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 J P Hall.. That is a good idea.. I've done that with a few of the anvils I had 30 eyars ago.. Was interesting to see the differences in hardened face thickness even with solid steel anvils.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 I called Kanka directly to get the help I got so far, Centaur started helping after that., I made this known as soon as my anvil was delivered and tried, not sure how their warranty works if you've used it for a while. but good luck! Still waiting to hear back, Kanaka Rep asked Friday what temperatures I forge stock on the anvil....Weekend for him too I guess, sent the video to the Kanaka rep and Centaur Friday Afternoon (western time) and haven't got a reply yet. and I agree there is a subtle shift in reflection from the hardness shifts...might look interesting but on this tool it doesn't it no justice. Crossing my Fingers for the response tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zip Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I found a 45 Rc file I had tucked away and tried it on the same area you did in your video. It’s definitely below 45. I’ve had mine for 2 months. I’m sure it’s far too late at this point, and they’ll claim I got it too hot and it lost its temper. And seeing how I did bounce a ball bearing on it, technically the warranty is void. Though they didn’t have that disclaimer when I bought it. I was thinking a drop forged anvil would have been better than the cast, as I was considering a Holland anvil or old world anvil at the same time. Seems like quality of the heat treat is almost as important as the material itself. Kind of hard to judge the HT over the internet. Live and learn. I hope they make it right for you. It might be a bad batch of anvils, but it goes to show their QC is clearly not what it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 yeah that's tooo bad man! The HT is for sure as important, likely more so since properly hardened steel behaves very differently than normalized/annealed. I was wondering if the question of forging temperatures was hinting at that, but if that's the case every anvil ever used would have lost it's temper and that has been easily proven untrue by all the old very hard anvils.....but I won't make an assumption on that question. I don't have a loose ball bearing so I'm not sure of that test on mine, it doesn't rebound the hammer as much while forging as some I have worked on. Hope we both get the issue addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 Centaur Said they are sending a replacement anvil, Crossing my fingers that this one is hardened properly...testing them might not be a bad idea. I rebuilt/welded my forge together this weekend and got the chimney pipe up so I'm definitely ready to get back at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zip Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Good news. Are they handling the return shipping or do you own that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 no return shipping, kanka said the logistics of shipping it back to turkey and re-heat treating it weren't worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eventlessbox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 In the end they gain a valuable insight on a possable quality control issue. If the keep that under control I'm sure they will be a major force in the anvil market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Crest Forge Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Cool. Re-heat treat the old one then, if they let you keep it. There are some videos on youtube on how to do it. It doesnt look that difficult: A deep fire, a hoist , and some patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 yeah I might, Or might keep it for heavier use set on a different stump/stand. I actually quenched a track-anvil in the past in a 55 gallon drum, that used a whole lot of charcoal! this is probably twice the mass or more...It would be interesting. Have to wait till next month for Kanka to send a new shipment of anvils but looking forward to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I've rehardened anvils and a few up to about 150lbs.. I can tell you 55 gallons of water is just a good starting point.. sometimes things like this happen and its all for the better, not fun nor really productive time but in the end for the best.. Besides now you will have 2 anvils.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) Jlpservices, I agree. I haven't quenched an anvil personally but I've seen it done on video. They used fire hoses, iirc they used four of them. Something with that much mass 55 gals. wouldnt do it. Too much residual heat. I think it would just draw temper from the leftover heat if only 55gals. were used. Temper may be the wrong term. Anneal may be a better description of what I'm trying to say. Edited April 16, 2019 by pnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundryguy Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 A foundrymans perspective on heat treat. If you are going to heat treat a modern steel anvil I would suggest sending it out to a heat treat shop and having them get it right. The difference in a couple points on the Rc scale is huge. One thing you need to determine is actual chemistry, possibly by hitting it with a gun that most heat treat shops have or a high end scrap yard. I would verify what a producer says the material should be. A proper quench and temper might cost you $.50 per lb and you would want to get it shot blasted to remove the scale. You should be able to clean the top deck with a sander and re-polish the horn. Scale can be substantial with a hardening process. This would be for a cast or forged steel anvil. Ductile would be different process and an expensive one to do it correctly. Our H13 Holland Anvil tools are done by Cryogenic hardening. We out source the process. Tools are put into a vacuum furnace and quenched with liquid nitrogen, then tempered down to the proper hardness. Scale is minimal in a vacuum operation. When we started the price was $1.10 per lb, now I get a "deal" at $.93 per lb. The heat treat is a tough bill to pay but for H13 its what we need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 44 minutes ago, foundryguy said: A foundrymans perspective on heat treat. So yer saying my concept of a bonfire on the beach, a speed boat with a boom pole and a few brown bottles is a bad idea.... dang-it... oh well. Life is still good Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 It's only a bad idea if you want a good heat treat. If you're just looking to have fun, on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 I have to agree with FoundryGuy, After seeing the actual size of industrial heat treat furnaces at Nitrex the process is vastly more controllable and precise than what I could do here . We had a furnace that would do my anvil perfectly, we could feed cracked propane gas as a carburizing medium and the scaling was far less because of it, it had an automatic chain lift that dunked parts in circulating quench oil, and a vacucum furnace that did the same without the gas and would scale very little.. I miss that job sometimes, it was literal he double hockey sticks in the summertime 120 degress on a hot day I imagine, maybe more but I had more fun than most other jobs I've had and learned a great deal about metallurgy ...fascinating stuff. Not sure what they would charge but if they were still open I'd definitely consider sending it to them, there is one in Portland I might find out in the future though if it's hundreds I might just put that towards a German Refflinghaus anvil and be done with buying anvils. Got to work on two of them and they are REAAAALLLYYY hard, cutting on the face edge would damage a hammer really easily if struck, 58 Rockwell Guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Yes the Leidenfrost effect would mess it up trying to quench it in still water---even a LARGE, (Lake, Pond, Ocean), mass of it! Suddenly the term "Tidal Bore Cannon" came into my mind---let me go check my blood sugar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 that much steam/splashing boiling water is nerve wracking as well, we had to drop the track we quenched because there was so much, better a hole in my tank than a trip to the burn unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eventlessbox Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I'd say you have a nice heavy base for hardy tools to save the hardy on the new one they send you. Glad to see they are making it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Omnislug said: I have to agree with FoundryGuy, After seeing the actual size of industrial heat treat furnaces at Nitrex the process is vastly more controllable and precise than what I could do here . I've been trying to buy one for the last 3 years.. never has what I want in stock.. I'm on a waiting list.. I contact him once a month or so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnislug Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 which ones does he have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I'm talking about Refflinghaus Anvil USA distributor.. In fact I think I will email him right now.. Holland ( foundryguy ) anvils make a beautiful North German anvil but I'm partial to the Southern German myself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundryguy Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I better cut another pattern for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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