1940 Fisher - What do you think?

[Average American]

Brand new here. Thanks for any input. Thinking of purchasing this anvil. It is a 300lb Fisher. Rebound is fantastic and top plate is quite thick. Does have several chips along the edges but still a lot of clean edge. Also has a small chip in the face. That's the rusty looking spot in the close up of the hardy. That surface rust wiped off with my finger. Also the horn is really beat up, lots of long dents like it was used under a cutoff tool. (Is that something that can be repaired?) The guy is firm at $1500. Looking for opinions from more knowledgeable folks.

[Cavpilot2k]

Do you really have need of a 300 lb anvil? Some folks do, but most don't, especially hobbyists. 

For that money or just a little more, you could get a very nice new German anvil in the 200+lb range. For that money or less, you could get a LOT of slightly smaller new anvils. 

All that said, I LOVE my 173 lb 1939 Fisher. Nice and quiet. I like it a good deal better than the 230 lb Mousehole I started with. 

And I paid $500. 

I guess my point is...that's a lot of money for an anvil unless you are a pro or have need of one so big. 

But I'm also a relative novice, having been at this on a hobbyist level for 2 years. 

[Kozzy]

That's about as close to a brand new anvil as one can get in the used market.  The edge chips are no big deal.  I don't see a closer photo of the horn damage you mentioned and the one which shows it doesn't seem to be more than superficial.  There is typical cutting damage on the table but that's what the table is there for.

But...that's a lot of anvil for most people.  Way more than the average guy needs.  $ 5 a pound is pretty high..up there toward some new offerings.  The real questions starts to become whether the money saved on a lesser anvil can be used for other smithing stuff and if that gives a greater benefit than the offered anvil at that price.  I'd personally lean toward a lesser anvil and more other toys unless I was diving into smithing whole hog and already had every other toy I could want.

In this area, that anvil at that price would likely find a buyer pretty quickly.  It's quite high but all anvils are high now...and some areas quite high is becoming a new normal.  I'd pass at that price, but if you choose to bite, it probably wouldn't be a foolish move in *my* area (location location location!) as it's possible to resell at about the same price with some patience.

[Stash]

A lot of pricing is location- based- is there an anvil drought in the area, or is it anvil rich? In my area, eastern PA, that might be a little spendy (at least for me). That said, that is a great looking anvil. The edge chips are pretty insignificant, and are typical of Fishers, which has a hard top plate. The top plate isn''t as thick as you  think- they are usually not more than 3/8 to 1/2". They are cast iron bases, so they cast  in a false plate for marketing purposes. Even at that price, if I didn't already have a few anvils, I would be very tempted by that one. Offer a bit less and use the chips and beat horn as bargaining ammo. Good luck.

Steve

[Average American]

Thanks all. There is similar damage on the table as the horn but I'm not worried about that. As you said, that's what it's there for. The guy is firm on his price, not in a big hurry to sell it. And yes, there are very few old anvils in good condition in my area(central Ca). I was pretty set on a new 165lb Kanca but with tax and shipping it wouldn't be much cheaper than this. I know right now I don't need an anvil this big but I figure this anvil will serve me the rest of my life. I've only been at this for a couple years but I'm at my forge a lot working on 2 small homemade anvils. Really enjoy it. Can you have too big of an anvil?

If I passed and went with a new anvil what would you guys recommend in the $1500 and under range?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

We won't remember your location once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it. Have you read this thread yet? READ THIS FIRST

[Rojo Pedro]

Newby myself and I just bought a 165 pounder. 

 I really wanted a 275# Ridgid ($1550 delivered) but am real happy I didnt. First the 165 is huge compared even to my 100 vulcan, cant imagine needing anything heavier. Second it was about all I could manage moving and mounting it by myself. No way could i have with the 275 but I'm no spring chicken  

I didn't pay tax but both the ridgid and kanka 165’s were about $1050 to my door in SOAZ

That said I would love that big fisher ! 

[VaughnT]

I'm a huge believer in Fisher anvils and would buy that one in a heartbeat if I had the money.  The price is certainly high, but the overall quality of the anvil is pretty dang good compared to most that you'll ever see on the market.

I already have a 300# Fisher so that one would be redundant, but it has far better edges than my current anvil and would certainly see use.

Do you need it as a hobbyist?  No.  Not even a little bit.  Granted, it's one of those heirloom tools that you buy once and can rest easy knowing that your great grandchildren will still be using it.  They don't wear out unless you're an idiot with it.  They don't need any sort of maintenance other than a regular wipe down with an oily rag.  And you can always sell it in a year or two for a large percentage of what you paid for it -- thus making your "all in" cost a lot lower than the $1500 you initially paid for it.

That said, It'll be a beast to move around.  Unless you have a dedicated place for it and won't ever need to move it out of the way, or transport it to the new house you buy in two years.....  well, you might want to keep in mind just how heavy three hundred pounds is.

For that money, I'd give serious consideration to a Holland Anvil.  They're members here are are turning out a great product.  Their lighter anvil might be right up your alley.  Easier to move, just as practical, and brand spanking new.

[RogerrogerD]

If you can afford the price and you can move it about easily enough, buy it. It looks like a good anvil and it won’t lose its value. If money or shifting it is an issue then look again. Don’t be embarrassed to have a tool that could outperform your current skill level (if that makes sense). 

[Average American]

10 hours ago, RogerrogerD said:

If you can afford the price and you can move it about easily enough, buy it. It looks like a good anvil and it won’t lose its value. If money or shifting it is an issue then look again. Don’t be embarrassed to have a tool that could outperform your current skill level (if that makes sense). 

That's what I was thinking. Its certainly more anvil than I need now but I don't think I will ever out grow it. I can move it, it will be setup in a dedicated 12x16 shop and it will hold/increase in value. As far as shape goes is was really wanting a double horn. So still looking at Kanca or Holland. Researching Holland has been a bit challenging as I don't have Facebook. Cant seem to find a website carrying their anvils. Guess I'll just contact them through here. But I am leaning towards getting this Fisher.

[Average American]

So I contacted the guy to buy the anvil and it sold 2 hours before I called him. The search continues. Will be contacting Holland to see what they have.

[foundryguy]

Its Greg from Holland. Feel free to message me here and we can email you any information you need or chat on the phone. Cheers

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

As much as I love my 260# Fisher I never would pay that much for one. As to it never losing value, or going up.....never say never, just remember what happened in 2008. I also saw it happen with "collector cars" in the 80's. Some are worth half of what they sold for then. Francis Whitaker made his career on I believe a 175# anvil. You need a big anvil if you plan on doing big work. The only reason I have the ones I do is because I got them back when they were $1 a pound or less. The Fisher was $250 and the 306# Soderfors was $200. Could I make the same items I have made on my 125# JHM, yep, even the small 95# Hay Budden. I could outfit a whole smithy for far less than $1,500.  It may not have a London pattern anvil, but it would have a very effective one. Seriously, look at some of the new anvils like Holland, JHM, Jymm Hoffman, Rhino, Nimba, etc.. Better steels, and some have a lifetime warranty.

[ThomasPowers]

I actually have more hours on my smaller anvils than on the behemoth (469# Fisher in mint condition I paid US$350 for back in the 1990's).  We blacksmiths suffer terribly from "anvil envy" though---I have the shirt, actually several of them as I coined the phrase a couple of decades ago...

I too think that we are in a "bubble" and prices will go down---never to as low as they once were but having taught smithing for over 30 years, I've seen that the number of people who continue with the craft is fairly small after that first burst of enthusiasm. That combined with folks that think a high dollar anvil will make them a good smith only to find out that that is not so; I expect a bunch of anvils to gradually seep into the used market again.

[Average American]

Thanks for the continued help and advice. After more research I think I have decided on getting a new anvil. Fontanini, Holland and Refflinghaus are the 3 I have narrowed down to. I really like how the Fontanini is set up. Horn and hardy to left, upsetting block on near side, side shelf on far side. I like the steel Holland is using and they look fantastic. I like that both these are American made and more affordable. But I have to say, the Refflinghaus #58 is absolutely gorgeous. Their toughness, edge chip resistance and rebound are second to none as far as I can tell. They are more expensive but will I really miss that extra 6or700 dollars in 15, 20 or 25 years?

I guess my main question is, am I too hung up on the toughness of the Refflinghaus? Is the difference between HRC 52 and 59 that big of a difference to justify the extra cost?

[JHCC]

For an anvil, probably not.

[Frosty]

The edges of a face HRC 59 are more likely to chip if you miss a hard blow. Being new you won't notice the difference and being experienced I can work with what I have to work on. Get what you like.

We have mock arguments about which way to point the horn, we're just fooling around it's like the Ford Chevy arguments. Either way works just fine and when your skills develop to the point you know which side of the horn to stand on you won't need an explanation. Either mount it so you can turn it or with room to move around it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Ahhh you do know that Higher HRC means LOWER Toughness  Hardness and toughness are usually inversely correlated. Hardness being tested by resistance to indentation and toughness being tested as how much energy it take to break a standard sized coupon using a Charpy tester.

ASM Metals Handbook: Toughness---the ability of a metal to absorb energy and deform plastically before fracturing.

ASM Metals Handbook: Hardness---Resistance of a metal to plastic deformation

So for an anvil where you want BOTH you have to compromise.

Perhaps you were using the language differently?

[Average American]

Always learning. Thank you gentlemen. 

[Average American]

ThomasPowers, I guess the way I was thinking is the Refflinghaus is both hard, HRC 59, and tough as I have read multiple times how chip resistant the edges are. Was using one term to describe both. As I said, learning more each day. Thanks for your input.