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Dysthymia rears its ugly head.


JHCC

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As I’ve noted elsewhere, I’ve realized that my dysthymia is back.  The last couple of days in particular have been especially bad, and I only got a real moment of clarity last night while walking the dogs. I’ve been to the drugstore to get some St. John’s Wort (the herbal antidepressant that I used successfully the last time it was this bad), and I have also been using some of the relaxation techniques discussed in Michael Cochrane’s Prayer Request thread. So, thank you, Michael, for starting that conversation, and thanks to everyone else for contributing to it. Like so many discussions here on IFI, it’s not always just the person who asks the initial question who gets helped by the discussion. 

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John, I have no real experience with depression but I still offer my support.  Feel free to give a call if you need and, of course, post updates here.  It's my hope that working on projects (planning, learning, and smashing steel) is a suitable treatment.  If that doesn't work I'm currently making pea soup and a number of people have told me that my pea soup is life changing.

 

Lou

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I had to look that one up John. Turns out I know the feeling. 

Lou... Lol. Are you serious with the pea soup?  I gatta try some of that. I never thought that possible.

what has been life changing for me is my child on her way. She has been my ground, and I really have been more calm lately. Well, aside from the chain smoking and still drinking as much. I plan to cut way down very soon as I'll have to be in the mindset to get her to the hospital. I think I need to go get myself a new iced tea maker right quick. 

You were not taking anything away from Michaels topic. If anything it adds more meaning to it. And as you said, it's not just for the poster but anyone involved and others find it and can find help and meaning. Same as other topics. Wow all the helpful info. 

Prayers are with you John. 

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I was first diagnosed about nine years ago, but given dysthymia's chronic and low-drama nature, it's hard to reckon exactly how long I'd been affected by it. I went through a major personal crisis in 2009 that nearly killed me, and it was then that a counselor I was seeing gave me the diagnosis. St. John's Wort helped a LOT, to the point that once I'd worked things through with that crisis, I was eventually able to stop taking the stuff with no ill effects or relapses. However, after the stresses of the last year (helping Lisa through dealing with her mother dying, quitting her job, and ultimately changing careers; various things with the kids; plus my own work-related stress), the slow fuse started burning again, and when I was dealing with a number of issues (personal and professional) this past week, I realized how bad it was and that I was back in the darkness. The good news is that because I've been through this before, I was able to recognize the symptoms and know what to do about it.

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Soup.

I give you Das, it sounds ridiculous ... However ... it is rather simple ... L-tryptophan. An amino acid the body can not make on it's own that is used to make vitamin B and Serotonin 

No one explains it better than Elizabeth Sommers in her book "Eat your way to happiness", and yes, pea soup has some of this Tryptowonder but nowhere near as much as chicken soup has. 

Nothing is further removed from me than wanting to give advice. I can only say that chicken soup is scientifically proven to work. 

Surprisingly or not surprisingly, St John's Wort acts by making serotonin more available to the brain ... may be an oversimplification and if you are interested, more here. http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/St_Johns_Wort_Effective_with_Caveats.shtml .  and the way they know it does that is by measuring the amount of L-tryptophane present that reduces with St. John's Wort. 

So I say ... pea and chicken soup in combination with St John's Wort should be the ticket :)

PS

Keep an eye on the side effects of St John's Wort, if you are taking blood thinners and other caveats in that link.

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Recognising, acknowledging the signs, and talking about it. All great steps. 

Not sure how things are where you are, but over here we're still dealing with dark, cold, awful weather, with no sign of spring in sight. Really doesn't help.
Over the past few years i've been getting increasingly worse as the seasons change; really struggling to function as autumn turns to winter (family history of S.A.D.).

If I hadn't picked up a hammer this October for the first time, I really don't believe i'd be sitting here typing this now. It was something about giving myself a new goal and hobby to focus on that made me get up, and do something. Only recently, have I been able to talk about my mental state back then. Unable to function or talk. Even trying to get up and leave the room to go to the kitchen could have taken several hours of trying to convince myself I could do it. Brain chemistry was completely screwed up, and there was a serenity and peacefulness in the thought of ending it all.

 

All I can say is, you're not alone JHCC, and glad you've spotted the signs and can speak about it, and be proactive in helping yourself, knowing what works for you.

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'John, I can't really add anything to the discussion here, only to say how wonderful this community is in expressing support for members who find themselves grappling with these problems. I do hope the way becomes clearer for you soon. Some of Marc's pea and chicken soup could go well here at times too. Very best wishes from the antipodes. 

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As said, I think we all deal with this periodically, especially at this time of year.  I'm hardly a good person to go to for assistance with this type of issue, but I've met you in person and know that you are a good, intelligent and generous guy, with a lot to offer the rest of us.  My only recommendations are to keep paddling and to schedule some things that you can look forward to and get inspired by (blacksmithing classes and meetings work for me).  My general philosophy is that if you don't ride through the lows you don't appreciate the highs.

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JAV, suicidel ideations are chalaging to say the least, and as some one who wrestles with that particular demon myself I feel guilty every time I seek to help some one see their way clear. For me I know that chemically great and depression are nearly identical, and I relish the peaple I love would feel grief and guilt if I were to take my own life. I would rather feel the pain than inflict it on them.

is light therapy and supplemental vitumun D part of your therapy regiment?

John, if you ever need somthing to keep your mind active, their are a few years of my posts in need of editing....

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Haven't actually got a formal diagnosis or any therapy yet. Did try vitamin supplements this year, although not convinced it made much of a difference.
My late grandmother suffered from it, and it's only been the past couple of years that i've been experiencing symptoms, this past autumn/winter being the worst to date (although it has been a particularly bad year due to various other personal reasons, so could be coincidental) 

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I'm in the same club--Decades of it coming and going with occasional forays into some really deep quicksand. Often, atypical Seasonal Affective Disorder can play a part for people (I've spoken to many on the subject over the years):  Instead of the typical sink-hole over winter, those pits occur to varying degrees at the seasonal transitions or even at the peak of summer.  Not that you fit that pattern but it might be worth keeping track of in the back of your mind to see if you can see any pattern over time.  Since doctors and patients tend to look for typical SAD, they often dismiss the atypical variations.  

St John's wort--remarkably effective for many people but it is also remarkable just how much it can make one prone to burns.  Although the sunlight (sunburn) aspect is well documented, I found that I also was more prone to scalding from things like hot coffee spills.  Anyway, just something to watch out for, especially since you might be hanging out near a forge.

After a lifetime of this crap and seeing that everyone is completely different in what works for their body, I no longer try and give suggestions other than do what you have learned works for your body... or simply try something different if the old "fixits" aren't cutting it.  Just know that you are not alone and there are a ton of others who understand (in a general sense) what you are going through--

Oh...and you have my permission to kick the stuffing out of people who say things like "Just pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" or "Smile on the outside and pretty soon you'll be smiling on the inside too".

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Just now, Kozzy said:

people who say things like "Just pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" or "Smile on the outside and pretty soon you'll be smiling on the inside too".

Yes, my typical response to such folks is language that would get me banned from IFI faster than a brine quench.

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I don't know how much I can add beyond what I've already said. I guess I suffer dysthymia rather than the, "long cycle low intensity manic depressive," issues I was told I went through. One of the things this skeptical old fart has noticed over the years is how people who's career depends on diagnosing conditions WILL find something even if they have to "discover" a new one or rename an old one.

Closer to home, depression can be self fulfilling. The more I think about or worry about being depressed the more depressed I get. I suffer much less since I just accepted it and go on in spite. 

Peas soup is always a good thing especially if it has well smoked ham and plenty of onions in it. Just thinking of a bowl of hot pea soup and a piece of warm home made bread to dip makes me feel happy. Chicken soup is a good one too though I'll take pea if I have my druthers.

Campbells Chunky soups come in single serving microwaveable packages now. The Pea with ham is darned good for "canned" pea soup and the others are tasty too. I like the creamy chicken and dumpling but they're all pretty good. They're fast and easy, no trouble at all, don't even have to wash the dishes, you can sip it right out of the package. There is a canned version that's good, pop it in a bowl and nuke it, there are more canned flavors.

Be well brother, we're pulling for you.

JAV: Alaskan winters has a lot to do with my mood too. When I lived in the mobile home, before meeting Deb, I had a terrarium set up. Not the typical aquarium with plants but a 6' x 2' x 2' plastic tank with a geologic history and more than 50 cacti, succulents, euphorbia and two curly tail lizards. It helped at first by being a project I had to really focus and work on to get to work at all let alone live up to my mental image. Then I discovered there was no way I could get enough lumens from fluorescent lights and the low psi sodium, metal halide I bought was too localized. I had to  buy, adapt and generally make work a track with motor and timer.

Well, the project got me through one winter but that xxxxxxxx BRIGHT plant light kept me happy over winter for years after. 

Light therapy works and you don't need to pay big bucks for the special units just put up more lights and buy the bright white LEDs, they keep me smiling. Well, okay the silly and pun filled threads here go a long way too.

Frosty The Lucky.

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11 minutes ago, Kozzy said:

atypical Seasonal Affective Disorder

Know this one well. Have been atypically affected by low Serotonin since at least age 11.

Subjecting yourself to sessions of bright light can be very helpful.

Robert Taylor.

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First winter we moved to Ohio we had 90 days with no sun and discovered that my wife had SAD.  I stopped turning off lights and installed some 4 bar florescent "shop lights" in the kitchen.  I noticed she gravitated to the kitchen in winter...

First winter down here in NM, I don't think we had a single cloudy day and the sunlight was intense---My wife was like she was mainlining extra strength espresso.   She told me that we are retiring here in New Mexico and I said "Yes Dear".

JHCC; lots of room out here...nice place to retire...

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It is crazy how humans appear to be solar powered. 

Bit of bight light after months of darkness and we're turbo charged. 

Probably the worst part of an office job. No natural light about, and I'm lucky if I see about 5 minutes a week when heading our for lunch. Dark leaving in the morning, dark heading home over winter. 

Might have a word with the boss about getting some sort of daylight lamp. 

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7 minutes ago, JustAnotherViking said:

It is crazy how humans appear to be solar powered. 

Bit of bight light after months of darkness and we're turbo charged. 

Probably the worst part of an office job. No natural light about, and I'm lucky if I see about 5 minutes a week when heading our for lunch. Dark leaving in the morning, dark heading home over winter. 

Might have a word with the boss about getting some sort of daylight lamp. 

Yeah, we're diurnal, light is our friend, heck I think it's why full moons see more night time activity we can see. How about a desk lamp with a bright white LED? The bargain basement flourescents most often used in offices are notorious, even the buzz is annoying.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Interesting observation that one about light. Never thought of it living in sunny Sydney, but I must say that when the local nincompoop government decides to change the time and turns it one hour back, with the result that we have sunlight 5 in the morning and it is pitch dark 5 in the afternoon, I tend to get grumpy for no apparent reason. :( And it happens every year. "Daylight saving" they call it. I want daylight abundance not saving! What are we saving it for? Tomorrow? 

Anyway, seriously now, on the topic of being grumpy, I also notice that my dog changes my mood instantly every time i talk to him. He has the gift of making me happy like a kid can, yet is unable to get in trouble or anger me whatever he does. No wonder they have "dog therapy" in hospitals, and they use all sorts of animals not only dogs, but a good dog is an absolute blessing. Mine is a Spoodle.

I took this last Friday afternoon. We went for the best burger around after running out of coal. 50 minutes at 3000 rpm and hardly any boats around. 

image.thumb.png.fe23862f11a09ce5525a969bd2dcf0e2.png30227114_10155491444613424_7429394855691

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Update: the St. John’s Wort is definitely doing its thing. I’ve been feeling a LOT better, despite being sleep-deprived and thrown off-balance by a combination of teenager drama and work travel. 

Thanks to all of you for your support and advice. 

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4 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

If one would just spay or neuter ones teenagers their would be oh so much less drama...

The girls are in approaching their late twenties, unfortunately drama still raises its ugly head.

 

Uh . . . I think you'd have to spay and neuter their parents wouldn't you? Dad used to long for using the Bunghole method of raising us kids. I had to get Mother to explain. Stick kids in a barrel at birth, feed them through the bunghole and occasionally hose them off. Let them out when they're old enough to move out.

Frosty The Lucky.

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