ThomasPowers Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 On a post drill site I ran across this: "If you have a problem with making your own parts then DON'T buy one of these drills. Are you an idiot? Are you a moron? Are you too stupid to understand this? I can't help you if you buy a broken drill. In fact I just don't care. If you buy one of these drills and it doesn't work and you aren't skilled enough to figure it out on your own, then don't bother me because I can't help you. These drills are for experts that can figure these things out on their own. Not for morons that buy broken tools and expect everyone else in the world to help them for free. If you have to ask me how to do it, then you haven't got what it takes to repair one of these old drills." I feel like I should hang up my curmudgeonhood hood....On the other hand I'm rather proud that we are willing to help those lacking in gorm here and try to get people smithing and doing it right. (But boy do I know where he is coming from! The *many* posts I have written and erased over the years; the many times I have refrained from commenting....On the other hand such posts have been a big help in my going out and driving a T post using a 9 pound sledge one handed in 96 degF heat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Different sites have different rules. Name calling such as idiot, moron, etc is not allowed on this site. Much like buying a car that rolled end over end and is obviously totaled, then asking how to restore the wreck to show room condition. You need some idea of where to start and to realize your capabilities before buying the wreck. Can you learn, yes. Do you have enough time to learn, maybe. Is it worth the effort, that is your call. Experience says that changing the spark plugs will not straighten out a fender. IForgeIron is a blacksmithing site that WANTS you to succeed and we want to be a part of that success. We need to learn how to turn our response into a positive response and encourage those asking questions. ' Thomas, thanks for the post. It is a good example of what makes IFI different from other sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 we should send him a T shirt I like this guy...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 But as Glenn Says: this would be inappropriate for IFI! And I for one am glad of it. I've given up on several forums where name calling and bullying were considered OK and given up on several folks I've know for over a decade when they thought the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Thanks for this thread. I struggle daily not to be a rotten jerk, and this is a clean mirror for me to gaze into. And no, I am not calling Robert a rotten jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 On occasion I'd like the ability to move some of the . . . . less than genius folk to a forum where a good berating is allowed. Then I think, NAW nobody's hopeless no matter how hard they seem to be trying to prove me wrong. I believe just recently we got about as harsh as it's IFI to get on a . . . . youngster. Having to show restraint is good for me, I have to be really careful not to go off sometimes for no reason. My best course is to not engage idgits beyond offering an answer and maybe clarification if they don't understand the answer. I need to hang a note on my computer that says. If the OP argues with the answer spend my time more usefully. My own peace of mind is worth ignoring irritations. Oh I don't know Robert without talking to your better half or Mother I think you're about the right rotten for me. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Well I consider myself a cross between Crabby Appleton, Snidely Whiplash and the Master Cylinder and am waiting daily for my acceptance into the Evil League of Evil. It's just so hard to get good Minions these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Frosty said: Oh I don't know Robert without talking to your better half or Mother I think you're about the right rotten for me. Thanks, Frosty. My better half eggs me on at times..... At times. Let's don't ask my mother....... I like this site wherein I have to make a conscious effort, in the face of vexatious interplay, to maintain civility - helps me hang on to my "day" job. 43 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Well I consider myself a cross between......... Just saw a photo of you - bears sure look cuddly, don't they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 You should see his pre-breakfast pictures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Undoubtedly one of the reasons why this craft has taken off in popularity (thanks in part to U-tube videos showing people how to endanger themselves...) is that IFI is a place where even the most foolish of us can ask, and be corrected in a gentlemanly (and gentlewomanly) way, without name calling or the like. Heck, how many more people would follow things like the king of randumb on youtube if we didn't dissuade them? Here's to the curmudgeons! Keep us young bucks and overzealous know-it-alls in line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Well I think that quote in the original post is appalling. There is just no excuse for that sort of name-calling and belittling of another person, no matter how inane the question. Better to say nothing than to be like that. I contribute to only two forums and both have similar rules to follow. I am an admin on a grammar advisory site and we might get a little animated at times over the use of who and whom, or whether its has an apostrophe, but we would never refer to anyone as an idiot or moron for not knowing. Sometimes we get the simplest of questions from ESL learners and we need to be patient and understanding with our replies. I am pleased IFI has the same rules or I would not be a contributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 3 hours ago, ausfire said: I am pleased IFI has the same rules or I would not be a contributor. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 One of the hot rules here is the rough language clause, while a few wish they could say what they wish, Many understand that there are a few members that would not be here if it weren’t for Glenn's tight control on language used here. I personally know of a man that is now blind and he has his grandchild read and post for him. he would not be able to without our language policy. Another accomplished smith started here when very young himself and he has told me his parents had checked out the site before allowing him here, they would have refused if there was foul language posted here like too many other places. Some are bothered by this. but many welcome it as they would not be here if we did allow abusive language. and the few that complained the loudest in the past rarely posted, and are no longer posting here anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 One of the problems/advantages of Blacksmithing is that there is often a wealth of ways to do things and many of them work. We have to take care that we don't get fixated that *ONLY* our way is the right way. (Now there are things we pretty much all agree are WRONG---breathing lead paint fumes or zinc fumes come to mind.) But we need to remember to preface our posts with "This is how I do that".....Or "I think this way is easier/faster/cheaper/looks better/etc..." From Kipling's "In the Neolithic Age" "There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays, "And every single one of them is right!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Thomas, Thanks for this post. I just returned from a hammer-in where I was the only one with a side-blast forge, and a steel stand for my anvil. More than one old goat came over to tell me my newfangled forge and anvil stand were only good for nothing. Some to the point of outright rudeness in front of my kids. These are people who have undeniable experience and skill to whom I've always shown due respect. I don't know how they got to be experts without encountering such common equipment, but that didn't stop them from registering their firm opinions. As an interesting corollary, two gents who were a generation or more apart in age were talking about an insufferable young smith in Germany who'd been through some kind of formal European blacksmithing program. The gist of it was the young smith's contention that only those who'd graduated from a program like his could consider themselves to be master's of the craft. I was listening when it occurred to me that these two smiths only encounter one another once every few years at the hammer-in. They live hundreds of miles apart and they have entirely different social circles. Hammer-in aside, the only event they really had in common was being harangued by the same zealot. A long time ago I read an article about how societies tend to have their most impassioned differences between groups that have the most in common. Somehow, it's more frustrating to encounter someone who's "half a bubble off" our individual's beliefs. If that's really true, it sorta explains why experienced experts tend to take such offense to enthusiastic but semi-informed neophytes. Over the weekend one of my kids was struggling with bending a nice radius. I demonstrated how to tighten and open a bend with the horn and the bick probably a dozen times. Still, it was a struggle and I didn't want frustration to mount so I kept thinking of ways to communicate the lesson. Then it occurred to me that this was her first time at the forge and anvil. When you're total life experience with a hammer is measured in minutes, the intricacies of hitting a small spot are going to be a challenge. Encouraging the correct blows when they happened went a whole lot further than repeating the bending lesson. By choosing to be positive about what works, I broke the pattern of frustrating repetition without giving up on improvement for both of us. Just as a thought experiment, I'd like everyone to consider something; What would we talk about if it were possible to remove all uniformed rookies and/or questions rooted in superficial knowledge? I think it would become little more than peer-reviewed treatises on this or that with overly cautious and intentionally vague conclusions. Nobody could forebear the risk of offending a master of the art so we'd never write anything worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Who are the curmudgeons? I consider myself knowledgeable in the field, but a humility sign in my shop says, "Nobody knows 10% of anything." One of my students had a business card that said, "Mechanically Declined." I've borrowed that to talk about me. I am mechanically declined. I have done some mechanical things, only because I wanted to be a smith and I dug for the answers. Years ago, I poured Babbitt for my power hammer by calling around trying to locate Babbitt material...finally found at a windmill supply. Pouring instructions were in a blacksmithing book. Somehow, I got it done. I thought I was hot spit when I learned to change points on my pickup distributor, but then points were becoming obsolete. Therefore, in responding to beginners' questions on the forum, I try to stay clear of mechanical stuff. I know when to be quiet and let the big guys talk. Another thing, thinking as curmudgeons, let us not give so many answers that we feel elitist and wind up culturally slumming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just to clarify, though I don't disagree with any of Thomas's points, the site the OP has referred to is not a forum, per se, but an informative site setup by a fellow who is extremely generous with his time in posting about blacksmithing and associated tools. His site is chock full of great information, in particular on old post drills, and was extremely helpful in assisting me to get mine arraigned to function well. My guess is that he got a bit upset with the, likely manly insistent newbie questions from folks assuming that because he was kind enough to post some great background information that he would be available to walk them through any equipment repairs. Here is the site: Link removed as the post was a long time ago (1999), and does reflect well on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Note the date on his rant too, 1990's IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberBull Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Curmudgeon: a crusty, ill-tempered old man according to Miriam webster. Not necessarily a derogatory label in my opinion, just an end result. This site is a wealth of information. I am digging through mountains of info of interesting facts and opinion. I for one appreciate the way this site is run and moderated as one who has been there and done that. I ran a hunting site years ago and for reasons I never understood some people couldnt keep their emotions and language in check. I am all for a colorful story around a campfire or any other closed group but it angered me that people (mostly younger) had so much trouble with their language. Cheers to those that moderate here. Im just gonna sit down and shut up and listen for a while before I start asking stupid questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcostello Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1/2 of this world wants the other 1/2 to be the Minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Yep, 3 degrees separation cause more bloodshed. At the risk of getting political\religius, just look at the three major faiths and all their sub groups. How much blood ha sheen shed over how to worship one god. On 12/19/2017 at 1:41 PM, mcostello said: 1/2 of this world wants the other 1/2 to be the Minions. I’m of the lead, fallow or get the xxxx out of my way persuasion myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 I for one, do certainly NOT wish for half to world to be Minions---99 and 44/100ths is a better figure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Now if we could only train minions to follow the right people they could start weeding out the folk unworthy to lead anybody. We ARE talking about the little yellow guys with the random number of eyes and love BANANAS!!! Yes? OR are we talking about your typical human sycophants? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 well *mine* are usually know as psychophants for some reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Oh a fig for your crazy minions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.